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	<title>Comments on: Why we should merge churches&#8211;overcoming doctrinal differences</title>
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		<title>By: Jay Guin</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2007/03/why-we-should-merge-churches-overcoming-doctrinal-differences/#comment-259</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Guin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2007 17:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/2007/03/18/why-we-should-merge-churches-overcoming-doctrinal-differences/#comment-259</guid>
		<description>The elder/preacher issue has always been controversial. It&#039;s ironic. 1 Tim. 5:17 speaks of elders who preach. Plainly, there&#039;s no per se scriptural objection. However, when the elder/preacher is on the payroll, a conflict of interest arises. This is often resolved by having the preacher not participate in such matters, but it&#039;s still hard to supervise a peer -- a fellow elder.

We have two elders on the payroll. Both are retired and work part-time. Neither is the preacher. Their service has been a great blessing to the work of the church.

My observation is that smaller churches often appoint the preacher because of his education and experience and the lack of enough other men who are qualified. When they do this, they create a conflict of interest which is hard to deal with for the same reasons that led to ordaining the man in the first place -- an absence of qualified leadership other than the preacher. As a result, the preacher can come to dominate the church. (But this isn&#039;t always the case. Some preacher/elders serve with humility and grace. You just have to be very, very careful whom you appoint.)

On the other hand -- I know of countless churches where the preacher is not an elder but he is given the same power as a bishop over the elders. Again, it&#039;s because the elders lack the training or Bible knowledge the preacher has (or seems to have). The greater problem, therefore, is a lack of leadership outside the pulpit adequate to create a true plurality of opinion and to allow the leaders to check one another.

One solution would be to get the other elders better trained (I&#039;ve discussed this at http://oneinjesus.info/2007/04/06/on-the-training-of-elders/.) We have an institutional blind spot when it comes to elder training. It should be a well-established discipline -- if you want to be an elder, you&#039;ll attend lectureships, read books on church leadership, etc.

This is also one reason I feel so strongly we should have more church mergers. We need to pool our God-given talents so we have the best leaders leading the most people, the best teachers teaching, etc. Larger churches have no need to make the preacher an elder, and if they do ordain him, the other elders are more likely to have the knowledge and skills to bring balance to the eldership.

On balance, while it&#039;s not sin to make the preacher an elder, it&#039;s a practice fraught with danger and usually a bad idea. But not always. It depends on the man. Here&#039;s a test -- the more he wants the job, the less likely it is that he should have the job. Humility and a servant heart is always necessary for an elder -- but they are all the more essential for an elder-preacher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The elder/preacher issue has always been controversial. It&#8217;s ironic. <a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/1+timothy+5%3A17' class='bible-tip bible-tip-1_timothy_5%3A17'>1 Tim. 5:17</a> speaks of elders who preach. Plainly, there&#8217;s no per se scriptural objection. However, when the elder/preacher is on the payroll, a conflict of interest arises. This is often resolved by having the preacher not participate in such matters, but it&#8217;s still hard to supervise a peer &#8212; a fellow elder.</p>
<p>We have two elders on the payroll. Both are retired and work part-time. Neither is the preacher. Their service has been a great blessing to the work of the church.</p>
<p>My observation is that smaller churches often appoint the preacher because of his education and experience and the lack of enough other men who are qualified. When they do this, they create a conflict of interest which is hard to deal with for the same reasons that led to ordaining the man in the first place &#8212; an absence of qualified leadership other than the preacher. As a result, the preacher can come to dominate the church. (But this isn&#8217;t always the case. Some preacher/elders serve with humility and grace. You just have to be very, very careful whom you appoint.)</p>
<p>On the other hand &#8212; I know of countless churches where the preacher is not an elder but he is given the same power as a bishop over the elders. Again, it&#8217;s because the elders lack the training or Bible knowledge the preacher has (or seems to have). The greater problem, therefore, is a lack of leadership outside the pulpit adequate to create a true plurality of opinion and to allow the leaders to check one another.</p>
<p>One solution would be to get the other elders better trained (I&#8217;ve discussed this at <a href="http://oneinjesus.info/2007/04/06/on-the-training-of-elders/" rel="nofollow">http://oneinjesus.info/2007/04/06/on-the-training-of-elders/</a>.) We have an institutional blind spot when it comes to elder training. It should be a well-established discipline &#8212; if you want to be an elder, you&#8217;ll attend lectureships, read books on church leadership, etc.</p>
<p>This is also one reason I feel so strongly we should have more church mergers. We need to pool our God-given talents so we have the best leaders leading the most people, the best teachers teaching, etc. Larger churches have no need to make the preacher an elder, and if they do ordain him, the other elders are more likely to have the knowledge and skills to bring balance to the eldership.</p>
<p>On balance, while it&#8217;s not sin to make the preacher an elder, it&#8217;s a practice fraught with danger and usually a bad idea. But not always. It depends on the man. Here&#8217;s a test &#8212; the more he wants the job, the less likely it is that he should have the job. Humility and a servant heart is always necessary for an elder &#8212; but they are all the more essential for an elder-preacher.</p>
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		<title>By: Denise</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2007/03/why-we-should-merge-churches-overcoming-doctrinal-differences/#comment-258</link>
		<dc:creator>Denise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2007 01:45:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/2007/03/18/why-we-should-merge-churches-overcoming-doctrinal-differences/#comment-258</guid>
		<description>I just read this.  It was one of the links after the article about  &quot;church growth: having a story.&quot;  Your paragraph above about the elders relying on the preacher to tell them what  the Bible says rings a bell for me.  In our congregation the preacher is also an elder.  I personally do NOT like this.  The preacher/elder is really put up as THE elder by the other elders.  Any comments on this type of situation? 
 
As far as the articles go on mission statements and merging of churches, you are insightful in your ideas.  As you responded in your comment to Philip-your ideas can work if the church is in the right mindset. 
 
Thanks, 
dc </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read this.  It was one of the links after the article about  &quot;church growth: having a story.&quot;  Your paragraph above about the elders relying on the preacher to tell them what  the Bible says rings a bell for me.  In our congregation the preacher is also an elder.  I personally do NOT like this.  The preacher/elder is really put up as THE elder by the other elders.  Any comments on this type of situation? </p>
<p>As far as the articles go on mission statements and merging of churches, you are insightful in your ideas.  As you responded in your comment to Philip-your ideas can work if the church is in the right mindset. </p>
<p>Thanks,<br />
dc </p>
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		<title>By: Jay Guin</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2007/03/why-we-should-merge-churches-overcoming-doctrinal-differences/#comment-257</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Guin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2007 19:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/2007/03/18/why-we-should-merge-churches-overcoming-doctrinal-differences/#comment-257</guid>
		<description>If we run our churches as social clubs, as we often do, we&#039;ll get social club results. If we are true to our calling as Christians, I think the dynamics that drive the sociology will be different--and I&#039;ve seen it happen. It&#039;s all about whether the mission, rather than our personal comfort, is paramount. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we run our churches as social clubs, as we often do, we&#039;ll get social club results. If we are true to our calling as Christians, I think the dynamics that drive the sociology will be different&#8211;and I&#039;ve seen it happen. It&#039;s all about whether the mission, rather than our personal comfort, is paramount. </p>
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		<title>By: philip</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2007/03/why-we-should-merge-churches-overcoming-doctrinal-differences/#comment-256</link>
		<dc:creator>philip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2007 21:54:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/2007/03/18/why-we-should-merge-churches-overcoming-doctrinal-differences/#comment-256</guid>
		<description>I just read my last comment and saw all the typos, sorry ! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read my last comment and saw all the typos, sorry ! </p>
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		<title>By: philip</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2007/03/why-we-should-merge-churches-overcoming-doctrinal-differences/#comment-255</link>
		<dc:creator>philip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2007 21:53:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/2007/03/18/why-we-should-merge-churches-overcoming-doctrinal-differences/#comment-255</guid>
		<description>Now I confess I no longer believe in separate church but practical speaking combining churches does not work.  In fact uniting any group really works whether it is a church, a mosque, a knitting club etc.  Sociology studies prove it.  75% of the time after both groups merge, within two years the combined group / church will have declined to the same size of just one of the joining groups.  Enjoy your blog </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now I confess I no longer believe in separate church but practical speaking combining churches does not work.  In fact uniting any group really works whether it is a church, a mosque, a knitting club etc.  Sociology studies prove it.  75% of the time after both groups merge, within two years the combined group / church will have declined to the same size of just one of the joining groups.  Enjoy your blog </p>
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