Comments on: The Future of the Progressive Churches of Christ: Part 8, Predictions http://oneinjesus.info/2008/03/on-the-problems-with-the-progressive-churches-of-christ-part-3/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=on-the-problems-with-the-progressive-churches-of-christ-part-3 Thu, 24 May 2012 15:05:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Daniel http://oneinjesus.info/2008/03/on-the-problems-with-the-progressive-churches-of-christ-part-3/#comment-2022 Daniel Mon, 07 Apr 2008 10:37:16 +0000 http://oneinjesus.info/?p=836#comment-2022 The historical success of churches of Christ have been our ability to take the simple message of scripture to the communities in which we are located. It has not been contingent upon our uniting under some umbrella, name, creed or institution. (That is the strength of the denominational world) It has not even been our effective debate with denominational philosophies. It has been people willing to sit down with the Bible, read together, study together, and discover together the power of the Cross in the simple language of scripture. It seems like the future of congregations, however they may be labeled by other congregations, will rest on the willingness of those local churches to be salt and light within the communities in which they are located. Whether we have instruments in our worship or have women to serve on the table or lead prayers seems to pale in comparrision to the tranforming power of the Gospel of our Lord to work in the hearts of individuals and families - now that's the stuff of Christ's church, past, present and future! How blessed we are to have been invited by our creator to be a conduit in that transforming process! Our focus need not be defining our position on a spectrum that was non-existant in apostolic times, but rather on the cross of Christ. May we never lose sight of that Truth. "Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfector of our faith." Heb. 12:2 As for the Universities (having worked in one for 10 years), they will continue to be led by the decisions of their trustees. These boards are comprised of leaders within churches throughout the country. For the most part, they reflect the decisions of the leaders within those churches. Christian Universities do not choose board members from dying churches, but rather from vibrant and living churches, active and growing. As long as there are vibrant churches on different points of "spectrums" the Universities will reflect a cross-population of families within those congregations. May we not be so focussed on issues that your predictions come to fruition. Rather, may we preach "Christ and him crucified" to a world with an increasing population of people who do not know Him. May He be glorified in all we do. Daniel The historical success of churches of Christ have been our ability to take the simple message of scripture to the communities in which we are located. It has not been contingent upon our uniting under some umbrella, name, creed or institution. (That is the strength of the denominational world) It has not even been our effective debate with denominational philosophies. It has been people willing to sit down with the Bible, read together, study together, and discover together the power of the Cross in the simple language of scripture. It seems like the future of congregations, however they may be labeled by other congregations, will rest on the willingness of those local churches to be salt and light within the communities in which they are located. Whether we have instruments in our worship or have women to serve on the table or lead prayers seems to pale in comparrision to the tranforming power of the Gospel of our Lord to work in the hearts of individuals and families – now that's the stuff of Christ's church, past, present and future!

How blessed we are to have been invited by our creator to be a conduit in that transforming process!

Our focus need not be defining our position on a spectrum that was non-existant in apostolic times, but rather on the cross of Christ. May we never lose sight of that Truth. "Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfector of our faith." Heb. 12:2

As for the Universities (having worked in one for 10 years), they will continue to be led by the decisions of their trustees. These boards are comprised of leaders within churches throughout the country. For the most part, they reflect the decisions of the leaders within those churches. Christian Universities do not choose board members from dying churches, but rather from vibrant and living churches, active and growing. As long as there are vibrant churches on different points of "spectrums" the Universities will reflect a cross-population of families within those congregations.

May we not be so focussed on issues that your predictions come to fruition. Rather, may we preach "Christ and him crucified" to a world with an increasing population of people who do not know Him.

May He be glorified in all we do.

Daniel

]]> By: Mark http://oneinjesus.info/2008/03/on-the-problems-with-the-progressive-churches-of-christ-part-3/#comment-2021 Mark Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:28:27 +0000 http://oneinjesus.info/?p=836#comment-2021 Josh wrote: "The confusing mess that was the Protestant Reformation–all of it came about by Luther and Calvin beholding the church of Christ, wishing they could join up, but knowing they would have to renounce infant baptism." Josh, I will see your lol and raise you an rofl. Actually, you should have started your post, "I am Rod Serling, and you are about to enter the Twilight Zone." Mark Josh wrote:
"The confusing mess that was the Protestant Reformation–all of it came about by Luther and Calvin beholding the church of Christ, wishing they could join up, but knowing they would have to renounce infant baptism."

Josh,
I will see your lol and raise you an rofl. Actually, you should have started your post, "I am Rod Serling, and you are about to enter the Twilight Zone."
Mark

]]> By: josh http://oneinjesus.info/2008/03/on-the-problems-with-the-progressive-churches-of-christ-part-3/#comment-2020 josh Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:01:25 +0000 http://oneinjesus.info/?p=836#comment-2020 <i>"The conservative churches will no more die out than the non-institutional or one cup churches have. But they will decline in numbers as a whole. It’s already happening."</i> lol. Nothing could be worse than remaining faithful to God rather than trying every gimmick under the sun and drawing in the mixed multitude of rebels like Korah, Dothan, Abiram and On. Noah just wasn't missional enough and didn't know how to relate to the people. He should have hired him a Patriarchal Rock Band to entertain the people. He could have filled the ark up then! The church of Christ was small from AD 30 to the Protestant Reformation, and yet we sparked the Reformation by coming out of the woodwork and being persecuted. We've been small from the Reformation to now, and yet I dare say our presence in the world has sparked the New Perspective on Paul. We're not leaving. We're going to be here till Jesus returns, and some people are going to just have to get used to it. Even when we seem to be accomplishing nothing at all, God is accomplishing so much by way of confounding the denominations through us that its hilarious. The confusing mess that was the Protestant Reformation--all of it came about by Luther and Calvin beholding the church of Christ, wishing they could join up, but knowing they would have to renounce infant baptism. So instead of submitting to God and being saved they chose to rebel and make a New Rome, with themselves as dead and yet ever abiding popes. God did verily send those who refuse to accept the truth a strong delusion in those two men. And yet many others joined the church, and payed for that 'mistake' quickly with their lives, being drowned in mockery of baptism or burned at the stake. So did God fill up heaven with his martyrs who rejected the sceptre of Rome which is infant baptism, and the hallucinations of crazy men which is justification by mental assent and rebellion merged together. God is setting up another great entrance into heaven for a great many through the church. Too bad you will all have to miss it. "The conservative churches will no more die out than the non-institutional or one cup churches have. But they will decline in numbers as a whole. It’s already happening."

lol. Nothing could be worse than remaining faithful to God rather than trying every gimmick under the sun and drawing in the mixed multitude of rebels like Korah, Dothan, Abiram and On. Noah just wasn't missional enough and didn't know how to relate to the people. He should have hired him a Patriarchal Rock Band to entertain the people. He could have filled the ark up then! The church of Christ was small from AD 30 to the Protestant Reformation, and yet we sparked the Reformation by coming out of the woodwork and being persecuted. We've been small from the Reformation to now, and yet I dare say our presence in the world has sparked the New Perspective on Paul. We're not leaving. We're going to be here till Jesus returns, and some people are going to just have to get used to it. Even when we seem to be accomplishing nothing at all, God is accomplishing so much by way of confounding the denominations through us that its hilarious. The confusing mess that was the Protestant Reformation–all of it came about by Luther and Calvin beholding the church of Christ, wishing they could join up, but knowing they would have to renounce infant baptism. So instead of submitting to God and being saved they chose to rebel and make a New Rome, with themselves as dead and yet ever abiding popes. God did verily send those who refuse to accept the truth a strong delusion in those two men. And yet many others joined the church, and payed for that 'mistake' quickly with their lives, being drowned in mockery of baptism or burned at the stake. So did God fill up heaven with his martyrs who rejected the sceptre of Rome which is infant baptism, and the hallucinations of crazy men which is justification by mental assent and rebellion merged together. God is setting up another great entrance into heaven for a great many through the church. Too bad you will all have to miss it.

]]> By: Mark http://oneinjesus.info/2008/03/on-the-problems-with-the-progressive-churches-of-christ-part-3/#comment-2019 Mark Sat, 29 Mar 2008 17:51:18 +0000 http://oneinjesus.info/?p=836#comment-2019 Jay, I think this subject is where the rubber really meets the road. I don't think very many of us have a good idea what it looks like for the progressive churches to come together. Congregational autonomy, like most good ideas, has its strengths and weaknesses, and I think you are correct in your observation that many of us have learned more about isolation than cooperation. Regarding the schools, I talked to a friend who works at Lipscomb about a decade ago about this very subject, and asked him what he thought was going to happen to the schools as the progressives and conservatives move further away from each other. His reply was, "Those who position themselves as denominational ( meaning strictly C of C) schools won't make it. Those who position themselves as Christian schools will." When I consider our situation, we have a mission work that is about to suffer because we aren't "Church of Christ" enough. We will probably look to like-minded Churches of Christ to invite partnership, but we will also consider working with Independent Christian Churches. I agree with you concerning existing and potential problems, but I don't know that I have any solutions. I'm eager to hear what you and your readers will offer. Blessings, Mark Jay,
I think this subject is where the rubber really meets the road. I don't think very many of us have a good idea what it looks like for the progressive churches to come together. Congregational autonomy, like most good ideas, has its strengths and weaknesses, and I think you are correct in your observation that many of us have learned more about isolation than cooperation.

Regarding the schools, I talked to a friend who works at Lipscomb about a decade ago about this very subject, and asked him what he thought was going to happen to the schools as the progressives and conservatives move further away from each other. His reply was, "Those who position themselves as denominational ( meaning strictly C of C) schools won't make it. Those who position themselves as Christian schools will."

When I consider our situation, we have a mission work that is about to suffer because we aren't "Church of Christ" enough. We will probably look to like-minded Churches of Christ to invite partnership, but we will also consider working with Independent Christian Churches.

I agree with you concerning existing and potential problems, but I don't know that I have any solutions. I'm eager to hear what you and your readers will offer.
Blessings,
Mark

]]> By: Alan http://oneinjesus.info/2008/03/on-the-problems-with-the-progressive-churches-of-christ-part-3/#comment-2018 Alan Sat, 29 Mar 2008 17:06:30 +0000 http://oneinjesus.info/?p=836#comment-2018 Hi Jay, I hope we can find a way to bring some of these fragmented pieces together. I don't think that will happen by trying to win the arguments that separate us. But many of us are so weary of those arguments that we are ready to find another way. We should unite on the core gospel. Not everyone will be willing. But hopefully enough will be, that we can bring glory to God by showing grace and mercy and love and brotherhood to one another. I like that outcome a lot better than the one you described! BTW it was great to meet you at the Atlanta Elderlink today. Hope you had a safe trip home! Hi Jay,

I hope we can find a way to bring some of these fragmented pieces together. I don't think that will happen by trying to win the arguments that separate us. But many of us are so weary of those arguments that we are ready to find another way. We should unite on the core gospel. Not everyone will be willing. But hopefully enough will be, that we can bring glory to God by showing grace and mercy and love and brotherhood to one another. I like that outcome a lot better than the one you described!

BTW it was great to meet you at the Atlanta Elderlink today. Hope you had a safe trip home!

]]> By: Terry Laudett http://oneinjesus.info/2008/03/on-the-problems-with-the-progressive-churches-of-christ-part-3/#comment-2017 Terry Laudett Sat, 29 Mar 2008 05:30:13 +0000 http://oneinjesus.info/?p=836#comment-2017 I'm not sure I see a problem with Churches of Christ re-establishing an affiliation with Christian Churches. In my experience, they may not be a perfect network of congregations, but they tend to be gracious and biblically solid. We are not a perfect group of churches either. If we re-establish our ties, we would not necessarily be repudiating or insulting our ancestors of the last 100 or so years. They were not happy about the division either. So if we could find a way to get back together, it would honor our heritage of trying to be united, to follow the intent of the inspired Scriptures, and to glorify God. I'm not sure I see a problem with Churches of Christ re-establishing an affiliation with Christian Churches. In my experience, they may not be a perfect network of congregations, but they tend to be gracious and biblically solid. We are not a perfect group of churches either. If we re-establish our ties, we would not necessarily be repudiating or insulting our ancestors of the last 100 or so years. They were not happy about the division either. So if we could find a way to get back together, it would honor our heritage of trying to be united, to follow the intent of the inspired Scriptures, and to glorify God.

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