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	<title>Comments on: Letter to a Gay Man in the Churches of Christ, Part 2</title>
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		<title>By: uraturdy@hotmail.com</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2008/04/letter-to-a-gay-man-in-the-churches-of-christ-part-2/#comment-2206</link>
		<dc:creator>uraturdy@hotmail.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jul 2010 14:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>thanks for sharing </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for sharing</p>
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		<title>By: Erich Opie</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2008/04/letter-to-a-gay-man-in-the-churches-of-christ-part-2/#comment-2205</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich Opie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I recently chanced on your blog and are reading along. I wish to specific my admiration of your writing ability and ability to form reader to browse the while thing to the end. I would love to read more of your blogs and to share my thoughts with you. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently chanced on your blog and are reading along. I wish to specific my admiration of your writing ability and ability to form reader to browse the while thing to the end. I would love to read more of your blogs and to share my thoughts with you.</p>
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		<title>By: ALP</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2008/04/letter-to-a-gay-man-in-the-churches-of-christ-part-2/#comment-2204</link>
		<dc:creator>ALP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 16:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yes, Josh I recognize that eunuch does not mean Sodomite, neither in my mind at least, does &quot;Gay&quot;. Although I do not like the word and prefer homosexual. Gay has always meant something altogether different to me. The point was that God went to considerable effort in order to save someone we would have condemned and avoided even talking to. To be castrated would have certainly caused effeminate  behavior. Even today there are those in the church who hate blacks and homosexuals and effeminates. 
I believe that Paul talked of some being eunuchs made so by men and some being born such. Anonymous said he had never acted on his desires but you seem to condemn him anyway. How does that work? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Josh I recognize that eunuch does not mean Sodomite, neither in my mind at least, does &quot;Gay&quot;. Although I do not like the word and prefer homosexual. Gay has always meant something altogether different to me. The point was that God went to considerable effort in order to save someone we would have condemned and avoided even talking to. To be castrated would have certainly caused effeminate  behavior. Even today there are those in the church who hate blacks and homosexuals and effeminates.<br />
I believe that Paul talked of some being eunuchs made so by men and some being born such. Anonymous said he had never acted on his desires but you seem to condemn him anyway. How does that work?</p>
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		<title>By: josh</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2008/04/letter-to-a-gay-man-in-the-churches-of-christ-part-2/#comment-2203</link>
		<dc:creator>josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 16:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;Philip understood that the eunuch&#8217;s nature was not itself sinful. He could hardly change who he was! &quot; (Jay) 
 
Jay, please don&#039;t get ridiculous. Of course there was nothing sinful about being castrated. There was no desire attached to it.  It would be like having your foot amputated.  Is a man whose foot was amputated sinful because he has no foot?  No. But a man who has sinful desires is sinful because out of the heart come evil thoughts.  Thoughts are sin too. 
 
The prohibition of an eunuch being part of God&#039;s people under the Old Testament is just like the prohibition of Leviticus 21:18-21. 
 
Leviticus 21:18-21 &quot;For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, or crookbacked, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken (i.e. is castrated in some manner); No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.&quot; 
 
If a man was lame or blind or had too many fingers or toes, or even a flat nose(!) he could not approach the altar of God in the Old Covenant.  Did this mean that having a flat nose was a sin?  No, of course not.  It was a symbol of God&#039;s holiness, that no sin is allowed in his sight and that all men must repent of all their sins, but it was merely a symbol of sin and not a sin.  That is, here, because they had a very physical covenant, God was symbolizing sin by physical maladies that were clearly not sin.  The point then, of eunuchs and flat-nosed people etc. not being able to approach the altar was that God will not tolerate sin (which these things were merely symbolizing in this highly physical  and symbolic covenant). Eunuchs and flat-nosed people being allowed in the New Testament to be God&#039;s people is not then (what a ridiculous thought) a basis to excuse and allow a homosexual to go on thinking his homosexual desires are ok and that he can be acceptable to God without acknowledging them as sin and repenting and praying for God&#039;s help etc..  Rather, the point is that all men must repent because God will not abide sin, even as Paul says that God &quot;commandeth all men every where to repent&quot; (Acts 17:30) </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Philip understood that the eunuch&rsquo;s nature was not itself sinful. He could hardly change who he was! &quot; (Jay) </p>
<p>Jay, please don&#039;t get ridiculous. Of course there was nothing sinful about being castrated. There was no desire attached to it.  It would be like having your foot amputated.  Is a man whose foot was amputated sinful because he has no foot?  No. But a man who has sinful desires is sinful because out of the heart come evil thoughts.  Thoughts are sin too. </p>
<p>The prohibition of an eunuch being part of God&#039;s people under the Old Testament is just like the prohibition of <a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/leviticus+21%3A18-21' class='bible-tip bible-tip-leviticus_21%3A18-21'>Leviticus 21:18-21</a>. </p>
<p><a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/leviticus+21%3A18-21' class='bible-tip bible-tip-leviticus_21%3A18-21'>Leviticus 21:18-21</a> &quot;For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, or crookbacked, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken (i.e. is castrated in some manner); No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.&quot; </p>
<p>If a man was lame or blind or had too many fingers or toes, or even a flat nose(!) he could not approach the altar of God in the Old Covenant.  Did this mean that having a flat nose was a sin?  No, of course not.  It was a symbol of God&#039;s holiness, that no sin is allowed in his sight and that all men must repent of all their sins, but it was merely a symbol of sin and not a sin.  That is, here, because they had a very physical covenant, God was symbolizing sin by physical maladies that were clearly not sin.  The point then, of eunuchs and flat-nosed people etc. not being able to approach the altar was that God will not tolerate sin (which these things were merely symbolizing in this highly physical  and symbolic covenant). Eunuchs and flat-nosed people being allowed in the New Testament to be God&#039;s people is not then (what a ridiculous thought) a basis to excuse and allow a homosexual to go on thinking his homosexual desires are ok and that he can be acceptable to God without acknowledging them as sin and repenting and praying for God&#039;s help etc..  Rather, the point is that all men must repent because God will not abide sin, even as Paul says that God &quot;commandeth all men every where to repent&quot; (<a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/acts+17%3A30' class='bible-tip bible-tip-acts_17%3A30'>Acts 17:30</a>)</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2008/04/letter-to-a-gay-man-in-the-churches-of-christ-part-2/#comment-2202</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 21:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jayguin.wordpress.com/?p=980#comment-2202</guid>
		<description>Nancy, 
Thank you again for your kind words. God does work in mysterious ways and I&#039;d like to share how and why I stumbled onto Jay&#039;s blog. A long time ago when I lived in OKC, I was a member at the much maligned Quail Springs church. I can say this and still be anonymous because no-one there would ever remember me as I tend to stay in the background, plus it was a very long time ago. I heard about the ad and wanted to read more about it and that&#039;s how I found this blog. While on the topic, the ad is one of the most un-Christlike things I have ever seen. I could rant about that awhile... but won&#039;t. I started reading Jay&#039;s blogs and something moved me about his writing. I felt compelled to write to him even though I NEVER do anything like this. So the malicious ad is the reason why I&#039;m here. Kinda strange. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nancy,<br />
Thank you again for your kind words. God does work in mysterious ways and I&#039;d like to share how and why I stumbled onto Jay&#039;s blog. A long time ago when I lived in OKC, I was a member at the much maligned Quail Springs church. I can say this and still be anonymous because no-one there would ever remember me as I tend to stay in the background, plus it was a very long time ago. I heard about the ad and wanted to read more about it and that&#039;s how I found this blog. While on the topic, the ad is one of the most un-Christlike things I have ever seen. I could rant about that awhile&#8230; but won&#039;t. I started reading Jay&#039;s blogs and something moved me about his writing. I felt compelled to write to him even though I NEVER do anything like this. So the malicious ad is the reason why I&#039;m here. Kinda strange.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2008/04/letter-to-a-gay-man-in-the-churches-of-christ-part-2/#comment-2201</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 21:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jayguin.wordpress.com/?p=980#comment-2201</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the link above. It was a great article. I like the approach of &quot;You&#039;re not OK and I&#039;m not OK either.&quot; Gay people are not less OK than other people because their sin is different than your sin. But that&#039;s the way the church treats them. What about the chronic liar who is sorry for lying, but does it over and over and over all his or her life. If that person is a faithful Christian, is he going to hell or heaven? He repents and confesses to God but can&#039;t stop lying. Or the chronic speeder who drives 10 miles above the speed limit on a routine basis yet the Bible commands us to obey the laws of the land-read passage below. Why do we get to pick and choose what commands to follow? I speed on a routine basis so I&#039;m not judging anyone. My point is the church puts degrees on sin and pick and choose which Bible verses to follow and which ones to ignore. And then they twist verses and take them out of context to justify whatever belief they have, like instrumental music for example. What a stupid thing to fight about with all the problems in the world and all the gay people on the loose. 
 
Yet Romans 13 says &quot;Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God&#039;s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God&#039;s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God&#039;s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link above. It was a great article. I like the approach of &quot;You&#039;re not OK and I&#039;m not OK either.&quot; Gay people are not less OK than other people because their sin is different than your sin. But that&#039;s the way the church treats them. What about the chronic liar who is sorry for lying, but does it over and over and over all his or her life. If that person is a faithful Christian, is he going to hell or heaven? He repents and confesses to God but can&#039;t stop lying. Or the chronic speeder who drives 10 miles above the speed limit on a routine basis yet the Bible commands us to obey the laws of the land-read passage below. Why do we get to pick and choose what commands to follow? I speed on a routine basis so I&#039;m not judging anyone. My point is the church puts degrees on sin and pick and choose which Bible verses to follow and which ones to ignore. And then they twist verses and take them out of context to justify whatever belief they have, like instrumental music for example. What a stupid thing to fight about with all the problems in the world and all the gay people on the loose. </p>
<p>Yet <a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/romans+13' class='bible-tip bible-tip-romans_13'>Romans 13</a> says &quot;Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God&#039;s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God&#039;s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God&#039;s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Guin</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2008/04/letter-to-a-gay-man-in-the-churches-of-christ-part-2/#comment-2200</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Guin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jayguin.wordpress.com/?p=980#comment-2200</guid>
		<description>PS -- the article I&#039;m quoting from was pointed out to me by my brother, David, just this morning. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS &#8212; the article I&#039;m quoting from was pointed out to me by my brother, David, just this morning.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Guin</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2008/04/letter-to-a-gay-man-in-the-churches-of-christ-part-2/#comment-2199</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Guin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jayguin.wordpress.com/?p=980#comment-2199</guid>
		<description>Josh is right that &quot;eunuch&quot; means someone castrated. However, there&#039;s more to the story than most of us were taught in Sunday school -- 
 
 
 
&lt;blockquote&gt;This eunuch, a high Ethiopian official, is riding down the road in his chariot, reading the prophet Isaiah. Why? Why is he even reading the Bible? A eunuch was not even allowed in the Temple in Jerusalem. The Old Testament in Deuteronomy 23:1 declared: &quot;No man who has been castrated may be included among the Lord&#039;s people.&quot; 
 
Can you imagine what that is like? To be excluded from the people of God? To be disallowed from even entering the church? 
 
The passage the eunuch is reading says: &quot;He was led like a lamb to the slaughter, like a sheep before its shearers is dumb. He didn&#039;t open his mouth. Justice was denied him. He has been cut off from the land of the living. Who is going to declare his posterity?&quot; 
 
What posterity? This man has been &quot;cut off.&quot; He will have no posterity, no descendants. He is like the eunuch. He will have no children, no family. 
 
The eunuch asks Philip, whom God has sent to meet his chariot, &quot;Who is this man of whom the prophet speaks?&quot; 
 
He wanted to know desperately. I am sure he also knew the passage in Isaiah which says: &quot;The days will come when the foreigner will no longer say, &#039;The Lord will separate me from his people.&#039; The days will come when the eunuch will no longer say, &#039;O I am just a dry stick.&#039; The days will come when the eunuch who loves me and my house and my covenant which shall be better than a thousand sons and daughters and will be remembered forever.&quot; 
 
Could the man the prophet is talking about be the one to bring in this new day when even a eunuch could be a part of God&#039;s family? 
 
After hearing Philip tell the story about Jesus, the eunuch asks Philip, &quot;Can I be baptized? Can I be a part of this new family of God?&quot; 
 
Philip says, &quot;Yes.&quot; (No doubt he was thinking, &quot;Boy, am I going to get in trouble for this.&quot; He had already found himself in trouble with some in the church for previously baptizing some Samaritans.)&lt;/blockquote&gt; 
 
 
(from &lt;a href=&quot;http://theparson.net/gays.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://theparson.net/gays.html&lt;/a&gt;) 
 
Philip understood that the eunuch&#039;s nature was not itself sinful. He could hardly change who he was! And Philip overcame the strong, cultural bias against such people to bring him to the Lord. 
 
It&#039;s a great story of acceptance contrary to cultural norms -- norms that had been derived from the Law. But it had become a false barrier to fellowship. Jesus overcame it. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh is right that &quot;eunuch&quot; means someone castrated. However, there&#039;s more to the story than most of us were taught in Sunday school &#8212; </p>
<blockquote><p>This eunuch, a high Ethiopian official, is riding down the road in his chariot, reading the prophet Isaiah. Why? Why is he even reading the Bible? A eunuch was not even allowed in the Temple in Jerusalem. The Old Testament in <a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/deuteronomy+23%3A1' class='bible-tip bible-tip-deuteronomy_23%3A1'>Deuteronomy 23:1</a> declared: &quot;No man who has been castrated may be included among the Lord&#039;s people.&quot; </p>
<p>Can you imagine what that is like? To be excluded from the people of God? To be disallowed from even entering the church? </p>
<p>The passage the eunuch is reading says: &quot;He was led like a lamb to the slaughter, like a sheep before its shearers is dumb. He didn&#039;t open his mouth. Justice was denied him. He has been cut off from the land of the living. Who is going to declare his posterity?&quot; </p>
<p>What posterity? This man has been &quot;cut off.&quot; He will have no posterity, no descendants. He is like the eunuch. He will have no children, no family. </p>
<p>The eunuch asks Philip, whom God has sent to meet his chariot, &quot;Who is this man of whom the prophet speaks?&quot; </p>
<p>He wanted to know desperately. I am sure he also knew the passage in Isaiah which says: &quot;The days will come when the foreigner will no longer say, &#039;The Lord will separate me from his people.&#039; The days will come when the eunuch will no longer say, &#039;O I am just a dry stick.&#039; The days will come when the eunuch who loves me and my house and my covenant which shall be better than a thousand sons and daughters and will be remembered forever.&quot; </p>
<p>Could the man the prophet is talking about be the one to bring in this new day when even a eunuch could be a part of God&#039;s family? </p>
<p>After hearing Philip tell the story about Jesus, the eunuch asks Philip, &quot;Can I be baptized? Can I be a part of this new family of God?&quot; </p>
<p>Philip says, &quot;Yes.&quot; (No doubt he was thinking, &quot;Boy, am I going to get in trouble for this.&quot; He had already found himself in trouble with some in the church for previously baptizing some Samaritans.)</p></blockquote>
<p>(from <a href="http://theparson.net/gays.html" rel="nofollow">http://theparson.net/gays.html</a>) </p>
<p>Philip understood that the eunuch&#039;s nature was not itself sinful. He could hardly change who he was! And Philip overcame the strong, cultural bias against such people to bring him to the Lord. </p>
<p>It&#039;s a great story of acceptance contrary to cultural norms &#8212; norms that had been derived from the Law. But it had become a false barrier to fellowship. Jesus overcame it.</p>
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		<title>By: josh</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2008/04/letter-to-a-gay-man-in-the-churches-of-christ-part-2/#comment-2198</link>
		<dc:creator>josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 23:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jayguin.wordpress.com/?p=980#comment-2198</guid>
		<description>ALP, eunuch does not mean Sodomite. It means castrated person. In ancient times kings castrated their slaves so tnat they could have no heirs and thus would have to devote their lives wholly to serving the royal family. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ALP, eunuch does not mean Sodomite. It means castrated person. In ancient times kings castrated their slaves so tnat they could have no heirs and thus would have to devote their lives wholly to serving the royal family.</p>
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		<title>By: Nancy</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2008/04/letter-to-a-gay-man-in-the-churches-of-christ-part-2/#comment-2197</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 23:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jayguin.wordpress.com/?p=980#comment-2197</guid>
		<description>Anonymous, 
 
There is no question that God led you to Jay and this blog.  That was my first thought when I read your post.  You are here for a reason, because God wants you here. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonymous, </p>
<p>There is no question that God led you to Jay and this blog.  That was my first thought when I read your post.  You are here for a reason, because God wants you here.</p>
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