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	<title>Comments on: Which Gospel? The Gospel of Baptism (Paul), Part 3</title>
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		<title>By: Jay Guin</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2008/07/which-gospel-the-gospel-of-baptism-paul-part-3/#comment-3238</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Guin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jayguin.wordpress.com/?p=1329#comment-3238</guid>
		<description>Nick, 
 
It&#039;s indeed an interesting passage. 
 
Wright takes the position that this passage implies that there may be an in-between position between saved and tossed in the lake of fire. He says it&#039;s possible the &quot;nations&quot;  are outside the New Jerusalem. He also notes that the river flows out of the city -- to where? 
 
However, I don&#039;t see the river leaving the new Jerusalem in Rev. I think the correct interpretation is found by comparing with Eze 47 -- 
 
 
 
&lt;blockquote&gt;(Ezek 47:1-14)  The man brought me back to the entrance of the temple, and I saw water coming out from under the threshold of the temple toward the east (for the temple faced east). The water was coming down from under the south side of the temple, south of the altar.... 
 
6 He asked me, &quot;Son of man, do you see this?&quot; Then he led me back to the bank of the river. 7 When I arrived there, I saw a great number of trees on each side of the river. 8 He said to me, &quot;This water flows toward the eastern region and goes down into the Arabah, where it enters the Sea. When it empties into the Sea, the water there becomes fresh. ... 
 
12 Fruit trees of all kinds will grow on both banks of the river. Their leaves will not wither, nor will their fruit fail. Every month they will bear, because the water from the sanctuary flows to them. Their fruit will serve for food and their leaves for healing.&quot; 
 
13 This is what the Sovereign LORD says: &quot;These are the boundaries by which you are to divide the land for an inheritance among the twelve tribes of Israel, with two portions for Joseph. 14 You are to divide it equally among them. Because I swore with uplifted hand to give it to your forefathers, this land will become your inheritance.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 
 
 
 
Now, in Ezekiel&#039;s vision, the promise is to Israel, the 12 tribes of which will receive a stream of living water from Jerusalem flowing into the gulf of Arabah. 
 
The leaves therefore are for the healing of Israel, as Israel is promised the &quot;inheritance&quot; in v 14. 
 
However ... 
 
 
&lt;blockquote&gt; 
(Ezek 47:22-23)  You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the aliens who have settled among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23 In whatever tribe the alien settles, there you are to give him his inheritance,&quot; declares the Sovereign LORD.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 
 
 
 
Ezekiel also prophesies that Gentiles (aliens) will settle among the Israelites. They are to be considered native-born and to inherit -- a radical change from the Law of Moses! 
 
Thus, Rev 22:2 recharacterizes the vision in terms of the work of Christ -- 
 
 
&lt;blockquote&gt; 
(Rev 22:1-2)  Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 
 
 
 
The temple becomes the throne of God and the Lamb. But we&#039;ve told there&#039;s no temple in the new Jerusalem, as God himself will be the temple. 21:22. 
 
The river is now in the City, not flowing out of the City, as the City is now much larger, I suppose. 
 
There is but one tree -- Tree of Life -- whereas Ezekiel saw many trees. But now the nations have been made into one. 
 
And Israel has become all the saved. 
 
 
 
&lt;blockquote&gt;(Rev 21:24-27)  The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb&#039;s book of life.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 
 
 
 
v. 24 paraphrases Isa 60:3, and the thought doesn&#039;t appear that the nations will surround the City. Rather, it appears that the city will encompass the nations. 
 
The nations are &quot;brought into it&quot; but nothing impure comes in. Thus, he surely means the faithful within the nations. 
 
 
&lt;blockquote&gt; 
(Isa 60:11-12)  Your gates will always stand open, they will never be shut, day or night, so that men may bring you the wealth of the nations-- their kings led in triumphal procession. 12 For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish; it will be utterly ruined.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 
 
 
 
&quot;Ruined&quot; means wasted, destroyed, or made desolate. And so, notwithstanding Wright, the vision seems to be that the nations that serve God will be grafted into Israel, treated as native born, and live in the city to serve God. Those that do not will be destroyed. 
 
Nonetheless, the vision is people from all nations becoming a single nation under God and the Lamb, living in perfect community and harmony in a land without evil or suffering, with even kings submitted to the will of God. But it&#039;s not for everybody. Those who don&#039;t come in are destroyed. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick, </p>
<p>It&#039;s indeed an interesting passage. </p>
<p>Wright takes the position that this passage implies that there may be an in-between position between saved and tossed in the lake of fire. He says it&#039;s possible the &quot;nations&quot;  are outside the New Jerusalem. He also notes that the river flows out of the city &#8212; to where? </p>
<p>However, I don&#039;t see the river leaving the new Jerusalem in Rev. I think the correct interpretation is found by comparing with <a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/ezekiel+47' class='bible-tip bible-tip-ezekiel_47'>Eze 47</a> &#8212; </p>
<blockquote><p>(<a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/ezekiel+47%3A1-14' class='bible-tip bible-tip-ezekiel_47%3A1-14'>Ezek 47:1-14</a>)  The man brought me back to the entrance of the temple, and I saw water coming out from under the threshold of the temple toward the east (for the temple faced east). The water was coming down from under the south side of the temple, south of the altar&#8230;. </p>
<p>6 He asked me, &quot;Son of man, do you see this?&quot; Then he led me back to the bank of the river. 7 When I arrived there, I saw a great number of trees on each side of the river. 8 He said to me, &quot;This water flows toward the eastern region and goes down into the Arabah, where it enters the Sea. When it empties into the Sea, the water there becomes fresh. &#8230; </p>
<p>12 Fruit trees of all kinds will grow on both banks of the river. Their leaves will not wither, nor will their fruit fail. Every month they will bear, because the water from the sanctuary flows to them. Their fruit will serve for food and their leaves for healing.&quot; </p>
<p>13 This is what the Sovereign LORD says: &quot;These are the boundaries by which you are to divide the land for an inheritance among the twelve tribes of Israel, with two portions for Joseph. 14 You are to divide it equally among them. Because I swore with uplifted hand to give it to your forefathers, this land will become your inheritance.</p></blockquote>
<p>Now, in Ezekiel&#039;s vision, the promise is to Israel, the 12 tribes of which will receive a stream of living water from Jerusalem flowing into the gulf of Arabah. </p>
<p>The leaves therefore are for the healing of Israel, as Israel is promised the &quot;inheritance&quot; in v 14. </p>
<p>However &#8230; </p>
<blockquote><p>
(<a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/ezekiel+47%3A22-23' class='bible-tip bible-tip-ezekiel_47%3A22-23'>Ezek 47:22-23</a>)  You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the aliens who have settled among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23 In whatever tribe the alien settles, there you are to give him his inheritance,&quot; declares the Sovereign LORD.</p></blockquote>
<p>Ezekiel also prophesies that Gentiles (aliens) will settle among the Israelites. They are to be considered native-born and to inherit &#8212; a radical change from the Law of Moses! </p>
<p>Thus, <a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/revelation+22%3A2' class='bible-tip bible-tip-revelation_22%3A2'>Rev 22:2</a> recharacterizes the vision in terms of the work of Christ &#8212; </p>
<blockquote><p>
(<a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/revelation+22%3A1-2' class='bible-tip bible-tip-revelation_22%3A1-2'>Rev 22:1-2</a>)  Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.</p></blockquote>
<p>The temple becomes the throne of God and the Lamb. But we&#039;ve told there&#039;s no temple in the new Jerusalem, as God himself will be the temple. 21:22. </p>
<p>The river is now in the City, not flowing out of the City, as the City is now much larger, I suppose. </p>
<p>There is but one tree &#8212; Tree of Life &#8212; whereas Ezekiel saw many trees. But now the nations have been made into one. </p>
<p>And Israel has become all the saved. </p>
<blockquote><p>(<a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/revelation+21%3A24-27' class='bible-tip bible-tip-revelation_21%3A24-27'>Rev 21:24-27</a>)  The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb&#039;s book of life.</p></blockquote>
<p>v. 24 paraphrases <a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/isaiah+60%3A3' class='bible-tip bible-tip-isaiah_60%3A3'>Isa 60:3</a>, and the thought doesn&#039;t appear that the nations will surround the City. Rather, it appears that the city will encompass the nations. </p>
<p>The nations are &quot;brought into it&quot; but nothing impure comes in. Thus, he surely means the faithful within the nations. </p>
<blockquote><p>
(<a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/isaiah+60%3A11-12' class='bible-tip bible-tip-isaiah_60%3A11-12'>Isa 60:11-12</a>)  Your gates will always stand open, they will never be shut, day or night, so that men may bring you the wealth of the nations&#8211; their kings led in triumphal procession. 12 For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish; it will be utterly ruined.</p></blockquote>
<p>&quot;Ruined&quot; means wasted, destroyed, or made desolate. And so, notwithstanding Wright, the vision seems to be that the nations that serve God will be grafted into Israel, treated as native born, and live in the city to serve God. Those that do not will be destroyed. </p>
<p>Nonetheless, the vision is people from all nations becoming a single nation under God and the Lamb, living in perfect community and harmony in a land without evil or suffering, with even kings submitted to the will of God. But it&#039;s not for everybody. Those who don&#039;t come in are destroyed.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Gill</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2008/07/which-gospel-the-gospel-of-baptism-paul-part-3/#comment-3237</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Gill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 11:14:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jayguin.wordpress.com/?p=1329#comment-3237</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not trying to put you on the spot; I&#039;m really curious because this verse boggles my mind, too. 
 
If &quot;the nation states and economic and political structures will all burn,&quot; what will the leaves of the tree in Rev 22:3 be healing? 
 
Rev 22:3 - On either side of the river is the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, producing its fruit each month; and the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. 
 
Verses like these really get me excited with their mystery and potential. 
 
Maybe, &quot;this land is not my home?&quot; 
 
Or, &quot;This age is not my home?&quot; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m not trying to put you on the spot; I&#039;m really curious because this verse boggles my mind, too. </p>
<p>If &quot;the nation states and economic and political structures will all burn,&quot; what will the leaves of the tree in <a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/revelation+22%3A3' class='bible-tip bible-tip-revelation_22%3A3'>Rev 22:3</a> be healing? </p>
<p><a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/revelation+22%3A3' class='bible-tip bible-tip-revelation_22%3A3'>Rev 22:3</a> &#8211; On either side of the river is the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, producing its fruit each month; and the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. </p>
<p>Verses like these really get me excited with their mystery and potential. </p>
<p>Maybe, &quot;this land is not my home?&quot; </p>
<p>Or, &quot;This age is not my home?&quot;</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Guin</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2008/07/which-gospel-the-gospel-of-baptism-paul-part-3/#comment-3236</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Guin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 18:51:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jayguin.wordpress.com/?p=1329#comment-3236</guid>
		<description>Nick, 
 
I guess it depends on how you look at it. In one sense, this is not only our home, but the home we&#039;ll have in eternity. And so, yes, this world is my home. 
 
But the nation states and economic and political structures will all burn. They are not part of my home. Rather, the only thing that will survive the fire at the end of time will be &lt;em&gt;us&lt;/em&gt;, and we&#039;ll live in a refreshed, re-invented world. This rest will burn. 
 
Hence, the only nation and only society that&#039;s truly my home is the church universal. 
 
 
&lt;blockquote&gt; 
(2 Pet 3:10-14)  But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise &lt;strong&gt;we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness&lt;/strong&gt;. 14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 
 
 
 
Peter argues that we should look forward to the fire that destroys this world and pray for its hastening. In short, we should not feel at home in this age, but anticipate the next one. 
 
It might be more precise to say &quot;This earth is not my home,&quot; but I couldn&#039;t find a hymn that says that! Our home, I think, is the new earth. 
 
 
 
&lt;blockquote&gt;(2 Cor 5:8 )  We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.&lt;/blockquote&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick, </p>
<p>I guess it depends on how you look at it. In one sense, this is not only our home, but the home we&#039;ll have in eternity. And so, yes, this world is my home. </p>
<p>But the nation states and economic and political structures will all burn. They are not part of my home. Rather, the only thing that will survive the fire at the end of time will be <em>us</em>, and we&#039;ll live in a refreshed, re-invented world. This rest will burn. </p>
<p>Hence, the only nation and only society that&#039;s truly my home is the church universal. </p>
<blockquote><p>
(<a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/2+peter+3%3A10-14' class='bible-tip bible-tip-2_peter_3%3A10-14'>2 Pet 3:10-14</a>)  But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise <strong>we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness</strong>. 14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.</p></blockquote>
<p>Peter argues that we should look forward to the fire that destroys this world and pray for its hastening. In short, we should not feel at home in this age, but anticipate the next one. </p>
<p>It might be more precise to say &quot;This earth is not my home,&quot; but I couldn&#039;t find a hymn that says that! Our home, I think, is the new earth. </p>
<blockquote><p>(<a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/2+corinthians+5%3A8' class='bible-tip bible-tip-2_corinthians_5%3A8'>2 Cor 5:8</a> )  We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Nick Gill</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2008/07/which-gospel-the-gospel-of-baptism-paul-part-3/#comment-3235</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Gill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 09:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jayguin.wordpress.com/?p=1329#comment-3235</guid>
		<description>Jay, 
 
Have you thought about the relationship between Brumley&#039;s lyrics and the eschatology being taught in Surprised by Hope? 
 
Nick </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay, </p>
<p>Have you thought about the relationship between Brumley&#039;s lyrics and the eschatology being taught in Surprised by Hope? </p>
<p>Nick</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Gill</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2008/07/which-gospel-the-gospel-of-baptism-paul-part-3/#comment-3234</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Gill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:00:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jayguin.wordpress.com/?p=1329#comment-3234</guid>
		<description>That is indeed my story, Joe. I was immersed in 1994... I became a follower of Jesus in 2001. I don&#039;t think it should be this way. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is indeed my story, Joe. I was immersed in 1994&#8230; I became a follower of Jesus in 2001. I don&#039;t think it should be this way.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Baggett</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2008/07/which-gospel-the-gospel-of-baptism-paul-part-3/#comment-3233</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Baggett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 10:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jayguin.wordpress.com/?p=1329#comment-3233</guid>
		<description>Baptism has become such as quagmire.  We can drag people to the baptistery all day long and never make one single disciple.  In fact only about 10% of actual people who come from lost and unchurched background attend 2 years after their baptism.  Peter says that baptism is the pledge of a good conscience toward God.  I wonder how many actually pledged their minds and hearts to God when they got wet?  This also suggests a fundamental change in ones think or the way they see things such as the world.  But this deep spiritual change rarely took place at baptism because we preached as a work rather than a fundamental change in the way we think wrapped up in pledging our heart, mind and body to God. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baptism has become such as quagmire.  We can drag people to the baptistery all day long and never make one single disciple.  In fact only about 10% of actual people who come from lost and unchurched background attend 2 years after their baptism.  Peter says that baptism is the pledge of a good conscience toward God.  I wonder how many actually pledged their minds and hearts to God when they got wet?  This also suggests a fundamental change in ones think or the way they see things such as the world.  But this deep spiritual change rarely took place at baptism because we preached as a work rather than a fundamental change in the way we think wrapped up in pledging our heart, mind and body to God.</p>
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