Comments on: Which Gospel? The Gospel of Community, Part 1 (Introduction) http://oneinjesus.info/2008/07/which-gospel-the-gospel-of-community/ Wed, 08 Feb 2012 20:04:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: nick gill http://oneinjesus.info/2008/07/which-gospel-the-gospel-of-community/#comment-3327 nick gill Sun, 27 Jul 2008 18:33:42 +0000 http://jayguin.wordpress.com/?p=1414#comment-3327 That is always the scriptural answer: in any covenant, God exemplifies the proper response: Exclusion and Embrace. You never ignore the evil behavior, but you likewise never simply abandon the covenant. Romans 9-11 seems to have been written to make sure Christians get that point. That is always the scriptural answer: in any covenant, God exemplifies the proper response: Exclusion and Embrace. You never ignore the evil behavior, but you likewise never simply abandon the covenant. Romans 9-11 seems to have been written to make sure Christians get that point.

]]> By: Jay Guin http://oneinjesus.info/2008/07/which-gospel-the-gospel-of-community/#comment-3326 Jay Guin Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:27:12 +0000 http://jayguin.wordpress.com/?p=1414#comment-3326 I've been concerned for a while about an evolving form of Christianity, where an individual has a personal relationship with Jesus but lives and serves apart from the body. The mindset is very Western, very American, in that it reflects our culture's radical individualism. I think it's a very unhealthy trend. It's not what we are called to. And it's too dang easy -- in the sense that the Christian separate from the body doesn't have to put up with annoying fellow Christians. The trouble with the easy path is that those annoying fellow Christians need the love, encouragement, support, and leadership of those who are leaving to walk the lonely path. And the loners cannot reach anything like their potential in Christ apart from the body. And as Hauerwas likes to argue, we cannot show the world a better society, a better community if our own members bail on us. Of course, the institutional church has to accept some fault. After all, the reason people bail on the institutional church is often due to the lack of Jesus-ness in the institutional church. But the cure is not leaving -- it's staying and insisting that things get better. I've been concerned for a while about an evolving form of Christianity, where an individual has a personal relationship with Jesus but lives and serves apart from the body.

The mindset is very Western, very American, in that it reflects our culture's radical individualism.

I think it's a very unhealthy trend. It's not what we are called to. And it's too dang easy — in the sense that the Christian separate from the body doesn't have to put up with annoying fellow Christians.

The trouble with the easy path is that those annoying fellow Christians need the love, encouragement, support, and leadership of those who are leaving to walk the lonely path. And the loners cannot reach anything like their potential in Christ apart from the body.

And as Hauerwas likes to argue, we cannot show the world a better society, a better community if our own members bail on us.

Of course, the institutional church has to accept some fault. After all, the reason people bail on the institutional church is often due to the lack of Jesus-ness in the institutional church. But the cure is not leaving — it's staying and insisting that things get better.

]]> By: Lisa B http://oneinjesus.info/2008/07/which-gospel-the-gospel-of-community/#comment-3325 Lisa B Sat, 26 Jul 2008 06:24:31 +0000 http://jayguin.wordpress.com/?p=1414#comment-3325 I see. :) I see. :)

]]> By: Nick Gill http://oneinjesus.info/2008/07/which-gospel-the-gospel-of-community/#comment-3324 Nick Gill Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:31:00 +0000 http://jayguin.wordpress.com/?p=1414#comment-3324 Lisa, Swing by and read Bobby's thoughts on different kinds of relationships. Yes, you have to have a relationship with Jesus BEFORE all of those things. <a href="http://stoned-campbelldisciple.blogspot.com/2008/07/of-dating-engagements-and-fulfilling.html" rel="nofollow">http://stoned-campbelldisciple.blogspot.com/2008/...</a> In fact, everyone on earth has a relationship with Jesus RIGHT NOW... the same relationship that a king has with rebellious subjects. In Braveheart, the High Inquisitor says that William Wallace is on trial for high treason. Wallace replies, "Never in my life did I swear loyalty to that man." To which the Inquisitor replies simply, "Nevertheless, he is your king." That is the nature of the relationship that everyone has with the Lord Jesus Christ. To change that relationship, one must defect from your former loyalties (repent), swear loyalty to him (confess), and begin serving him. The church is the visible community of those who have sworn loyalty to King Jesus. Swearing loyalty to him (by confession and burial in water) is how you join that community. There is no two-step process. "Entering into a saving relationship with Jesus Christ" and "having a committed relationship with the body" are different ways of viewing the same event. in HIS love, nick Lisa,

Swing by and read Bobby's thoughts on different kinds of relationships. Yes, you have to have a relationship with Jesus BEFORE all of those things. http://stoned-campbelldisciple.blogspot.com/2008/…

In fact, everyone on earth has a relationship with Jesus RIGHT NOW… the same relationship that a king has with rebellious subjects. In Braveheart, the High Inquisitor says that William Wallace is on trial for high treason. Wallace replies, "Never in my life did I swear loyalty to that man."

To which the Inquisitor replies simply, "Nevertheless, he is your king."

That is the nature of the relationship that everyone has with the Lord Jesus Christ. To change that relationship, one must defect from your former loyalties (repent), swear loyalty to him (confess), and begin serving him.

The church is the visible community of those who have sworn loyalty to King Jesus. Swearing loyalty to him (by confession and burial in water) is how you join that community. There is no two-step process.

"Entering into a saving relationship with Jesus Christ" and "having a committed relationship with the body" are different ways of viewing the same event.

in HIS love,
nick

]]> By: Lisa B http://oneinjesus.info/2008/07/which-gospel-the-gospel-of-community/#comment-3323 Lisa B Tue, 22 Jul 2008 21:15:04 +0000 http://jayguin.wordpress.com/?p=1414#comment-3323 But, don't you have to have a relationship with Jesus BEFORE you can have a relationship with the church/body? Doesn't Jesus need to be YOUR savior, not the family savior, or the church savior, or your neighbor's savior? I agree that we do need the church to be complete and continually growing Christians, but the 'personal savior' does have merit, especially to new Christians. I like your thoughts about why don't we preach about the church being more like Jesus. I believe a lot of that lies in our failure to have community, many people don't like half the people they go to church with, let alone love them. Around and round it goes... But, don't you have to have a relationship with Jesus BEFORE you can have a relationship with the church/body? Doesn't Jesus need to be YOUR savior, not the family savior, or the church savior, or your neighbor's savior? I agree that we do need the church to be complete and continually growing Christians, but the 'personal savior' does have merit, especially to new Christians.

I like your thoughts about why don't we preach about the church being more like Jesus. I believe a lot of that lies in our failure to have community, many people don't like half the people they go to church with, let alone love them. Around and round it goes…

]]> By: Jay Guin http://oneinjesus.info/2008/07/which-gospel-the-gospel-of-community/#comment-3322 Jay Guin Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:25:08 +0000 http://jayguin.wordpress.com/?p=1414#comment-3322 Thanks, Nick. I think you said it better than I did: "My finger has a personal relationship with my heart BECAUSE it belongs to my body." You asked why those preachers and teachers never asked why? Well, I'm old enough to remember. We thought the answer to all problems would be found (a) in proof texts that (b) showed that we'd always been right. The idea that <i>we</i> might be the problem was unthinkable. Thanks, Nick. I think you said it better than I did:

"My finger has a personal relationship with my heart BECAUSE it belongs to my body."

You asked why those preachers and teachers never asked why? Well, I'm old enough to remember. We thought the answer to all problems would be found (a) in proof texts that (b) showed that we'd always been right. The idea that we might be the problem was unthinkable.

]]> By: Nick Gill http://oneinjesus.info/2008/07/which-gospel-the-gospel-of-community/#comment-3321 Nick Gill Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:08:10 +0000 http://jayguin.wordpress.com/?p=1414#comment-3321 That is brilliant, and it crystallizes several scattered thoughts of mine. Our personal relationship with Jesus comes FROM our connection to the body. My finger has a personal relationship with my heart BECAUSE it belongs to my body. I wasn't around for the "I want the Man, not the Plan" era. Why didn't those preachers and teachers encountering that idea ever ask WHY, and take the answer seriously? That is brilliant, and it crystallizes several scattered thoughts of mine.

Our personal relationship with Jesus comes FROM our connection to the body.

My finger has a personal relationship with my heart BECAUSE it belongs to my body.

I wasn't around for the "I want the Man, not the Plan" era. Why didn't those preachers and teachers encountering that idea ever ask WHY, and take the answer seriously?

]]>