Comments on: Facing Our Failure: The Fellowship Dilemma in Conservative Churches of Christ, Part 1

By: Dan Moran

Dan Moran — Tue, 08 May 2012 00:50:26 +0000

The dividing line is sin. If one is engaged in deliberate… and continues in deliberate sin, they are not in the grace of God nor should be welcomed into fellowship. Making church attendance, communion and the 5 magical items of worship the primary reason for our Christian existence is the failure among the churches. Taking the NT and making it a legislation of law destroys its message of salvation, freedom from sin, from the law’s death penalty and from a loving brotherhood. If we knew how to divide the OT from the NT we would fare better, live happier and love more divinely.

By: Facing Our Failure: A review (part 1) « the7ones.com

Facing Our Failure: A review (part 1) « the7ones.com — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:20:50 +0000

[...] Jay Guin’s review [...]

By: Person of the Day–Todd Deaver « The Blog Prophet

Person of the Day–Todd Deaver « The Blog Prophet — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 20:41:23 +0000

[...] Jay Guin Review : includes links to Gil Yoder, Al Maxey, Nick Gill reviews [...]

By: Jay Guin

Jay Guin — Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:11:42 +0000

Eric wrote,

This is not a grace situation. People want to hang on to, “well, God’s grace will cover it.” What makes people so sure? 2 Thess 3:14 If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame. This is a fellowship issue

Are you suggesting that there is no grace at all for any doctrinal error? Yes or no.

If there is no grace at all for any doctrinal error, then we must agree on literally every doctrine to be saved. I don't think anyone actually believes that, although many have said that.

If grace covers some mistakes, obviously enough, it doesn't cover all mistakes (I'm no universalist). Therefore, some doctrines are within grace and some are not. If so, how do we tell which ones?

The conservatives have utterly failed to articulate a defensible standard. Therefore, their position is bankrupt, even incoherent.

Of course, for me to say that, I have to be willing to meet the same test myself, and I have in several places. My first serious effort is posted at The Holy Spirit and Revolutionary Grace.

By: Eric Ramseur

Eric Ramseur — Sat, 17 Jan 2009 20:20:16 +0000

I am of the mind that there is only Biblical and Unbiblical. There is no in between spoken of in the Bible. For the sake of this blog entry, let's call it conservative and progressive. It seems that if no one can agree on the standard, then there is a defining word for everyone other than conservative and progressive. It all comes back to, people want to play fast and loose with scripture. Paul says, anyone who preaches a different gospel than the one he preached is to be accursed. I see 'conservative' and 'liberal' churches who are to be accursed. This is not a grace situation. People want to hang on to, "well, God's grace will cover it." What makes people so sure? 2 Thess 3:14 If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame. This is a fellowship issue

By: Welcome « Bridging the Grace Divide

Welcome « Bridging the Grace Divide — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 03:05:01 +0000

[...] differences between the two groups, the most fundamental difference, as Jay Guin rightly observes (One in Jesus), has to do with the scope of God’s grace: What are the essentials one must believe and do to [...]

By: Robbie Underwood

Robbie Underwood — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:38:20 +0000

I wish I had a nickel for every time I have heard myself or others mention someone being saved, only to be amended or corrected along the lines of "they obeyed the Gospel" (a perfectly good term in and of itself, but by no means exclusive in scripture). It's one thing to be looked at funny for valid premises of points of doctrine: it's quite another to engage in these petty spitting contests that do little to bring honor and glory to Christ…….

I have read Todd's book and find it to be profound for its concise articulation of the current dilemma. If you read this book, please read it minus any preconceptions (only what we ask others to do)

By: mattdabbs

mattdabbs — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:33:38 +0000

Thank you for reminding me of this book. I read about it on John's blog and now here. I will be getting a copy. Books like this are needed every so often to correct our corrective tendencies. Much of what we find so dogmatic in many conservative churches of Christ are the swinging of the pendulum of much that was seen as a turn off to denominationalism and denominational churches. For instance we don't use the word witness or testimony even though those are perfectly useful words to use to describe talking with someone about Christ or our own conversion simply because "that's what those denominational people say" and not because the term is without merit.

Without having read the book I at least can applaud the effort to help people see that the corrective often swings so far from what we were trying to avoid that we end up doing just as bad of things if not worse ourselves in the process.

Jay, I also want to say thank you for this blog. It has been a blessing to me lately.