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	<title>Comments on: Renewing Our Worship: Frontier Revivalism and the Invitation</title>
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	<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2009/02/renewing-our-worship-frontier-revivalism-and-the-invitation/</link>
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		<title>By: Royce</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2009/02/renewing-our-worship-frontier-revivalism-and-the-invitation/#comment-4690</link>
		<dc:creator>Royce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 22:10:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/?p=3329#comment-4690</guid>
		<description>Joe, Maybe you got me confused with someone else. I have not said anything that I know of to the contrary. 
 
Royce </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, Maybe you got me confused with someone else. I have not said anything that I know of to the contrary. </p>
<p>Royce</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Baggett</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2009/02/renewing-our-worship-frontier-revivalism-and-the-invitation/#comment-4689</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Baggett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/?p=3329#comment-4689</guid>
		<description>Royce, 
 
Yes.  But there is a difference in wanting someone to admit they are wrong and wanitng someone to be healed. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Royce, </p>
<p>Yes.  But there is a difference in wanting someone to admit they are wrong and wanitng someone to be healed.</p>
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		<title>By: Royce</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2009/02/renewing-our-worship-frontier-revivalism-and-the-invitation/#comment-4688</link>
		<dc:creator>Royce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 19:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/?p=3329#comment-4688</guid>
		<description>Joe, 
 
I think coming clean is the first step to healing, isn&#039;t it? 
 
Royce </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, </p>
<p>I think coming clean is the first step to healing, isn&#039;t it? </p>
<p>Royce</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Baggett</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2009/02/renewing-our-worship-frontier-revivalism-and-the-invitation/#comment-4687</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Baggett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 19:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/?p=3329#comment-4687</guid>
		<description>Royce I used to think like that but then I realized that wanting somebody to come clean and wanting someone to be healed are two different things.  Unless there is healing involved there is no reason in a confession public or private.  Confession that Paul speaks of is not specifically related to &quot;public&quot; sin.  The confession he speaks of is a healing process and eventually a transformation process. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Royce I used to think like that but then I realized that wanting somebody to come clean and wanting someone to be healed are two different things.  Unless there is healing involved there is no reason in a confession public or private.  Confession that Paul speaks of is not specifically related to &quot;public&quot; sin.  The confession he speaks of is a healing process and eventually a transformation process.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Royce</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2009/02/renewing-our-worship-frontier-revivalism-and-the-invitation/#comment-4686</link>
		<dc:creator>Royce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 14:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/?p=3329#comment-4686</guid>
		<description>Pardon me Jay... 
 
One last thought..... Only when you have leaders (elders, preachers, etc.) who are transparent and openly admit their struggles are you likely to have those in the pews comfortable sharing openly when they are in trouble. Thank God we have elders (both of our preachers are elders too) who are in every way just like us. They are different in that they have much greater responsibility and carry a heavy load. 
 
Royce </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pardon me Jay&#8230; </p>
<p>One last thought&#8230;.. Only when you have leaders (elders, preachers, etc.) who are transparent and openly admit their struggles are you likely to have those in the pews comfortable sharing openly when they are in trouble. Thank God we have elders (both of our preachers are elders too) who are in every way just like us. They are different in that they have much greater responsibility and carry a heavy load. </p>
<p>Royce</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Royce</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2009/02/renewing-our-worship-frontier-revivalism-and-the-invitation/#comment-4685</link>
		<dc:creator>Royce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 14:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/?p=3329#comment-4685</guid>
		<description>Joe, 
 
You mention confession. In my view, if the transgression is public, many people in the congregation are aware of it, then a public confession would be in order. However, if the guy had cheated on his IRS forms a talk with his wife or a close friend who is also a brother would make more sense in my view. 
 
One of the problems I see in churches like ours where it is so open and grace oriented is that some people tend to think their forgiveness is only possible if they confess to the congregaiton. 
 
God has forgiven sin based on the worth and work of Jesus. As we confess to God (see our sin the way he sees it, or say about  it what he says) he cleanses us from unrighteousness.Confession to others invokes their love, their prayers, and their holding accountable the one who confesses. They don&#039;t hold out forgiveness.Only God owns that right. 
 
Royce </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, </p>
<p>You mention confession. In my view, if the transgression is public, many people in the congregation are aware of it, then a public confession would be in order. However, if the guy had cheated on his IRS forms a talk with his wife or a close friend who is also a brother would make more sense in my view. </p>
<p>One of the problems I see in churches like ours where it is so open and grace oriented is that some people tend to think their forgiveness is only possible if they confess to the congregaiton. </p>
<p>God has forgiven sin based on the worth and work of Jesus. As we confess to God (see our sin the way he sees it, or say about  it what he says) he cleanses us from unrighteousness.Confession to others invokes their love, their prayers, and their holding accountable the one who confesses. They don&#039;t hold out forgiveness.Only God owns that right. </p>
<p>Royce</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Joe Baggett</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2009/02/renewing-our-worship-frontier-revivalism-and-the-invitation/#comment-4684</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Baggett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 11:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/?p=3329#comment-4684</guid>
		<description>Wow, I don&#8217;t know how much I have thought about this. The church I grew up in split when I was I high school over not having a formal traditional invitation, and yes it was to be baptized or place membership or publically confess sin to the whole congregation so they could judge you.  Did you ever notice that the instruction is to confess sin one to another not to whole congregation of people who you barely know. The whole point of confession was to be &#8220;healed&#8221;.  Traditional confession at the invitation was only to here about something awful like adultery or divorce.  You almost never heard anyone say I am unkind or racist or a glutton.  To me there are essentially two invitations one to Christians and one to non-Christians.  To the non-Christians it is to believe for the first time and yes eventually be baptized after they have counted the cost and come to a deep personal independently held faith. The truth is there are almost none (true non-Christians) in our assemblies.  The other invitation to Christians is to become and overcome.  That is to become like Christ (transformed fro our sinful nature in to God&#8217;s nature) in the thoughts and behavior and overcome sin they are really one and the same.  Now please understand that I am not saying that we should offer a formal invitation with a song and come down front.  So if the assembly is almost exclusively Christians then the invitation would be to become or overcome.  Take for example kindness, the invitation would be to look at my life in the light of God&#8217;s nature of kindness and see where I need to become more like Him in his nature of kindness.  Too seldom is the invitation to &#8220;do&#8221; rather than to become and overcome.  Too seldom do we expose God&#8217;s nature and character in our preaching.  I think that in some ways we have come to worship the Bible rather than the God who is trying to reveal himself through it.  Most churches that have stopped their traditional invitations have done so because almost everyone one of age in the church has already been baptized at least once and nobody feels safe to make a confession to the whole congregation. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, I don&rsquo;t know how much I have thought about this. The church I grew up in split when I was I high school over not having a formal traditional invitation, and yes it was to be baptized or place membership or publically confess sin to the whole congregation so they could judge you.  Did you ever notice that the instruction is to confess sin one to another not to whole congregation of people who you barely know. The whole point of confession was to be &ldquo;healed&rdquo;.  Traditional confession at the invitation was only to here about something awful like adultery or divorce.  You almost never heard anyone say I am unkind or racist or a glutton.  To me there are essentially two invitations one to Christians and one to non-Christians.  To the non-Christians it is to believe for the first time and yes eventually be baptized after they have counted the cost and come to a deep personal independently held faith. The truth is there are almost none (true non-Christians) in our assemblies.  The other invitation to Christians is to become and overcome.  That is to become like Christ (transformed fro our sinful nature in to God&rsquo;s nature) in the thoughts and behavior and overcome sin they are really one and the same.  Now please understand that I am not saying that we should offer a formal invitation with a song and come down front.  So if the assembly is almost exclusively Christians then the invitation would be to become or overcome.  Take for example kindness, the invitation would be to look at my life in the light of God&rsquo;s nature of kindness and see where I need to become more like Him in his nature of kindness.  Too seldom is the invitation to &ldquo;do&rdquo; rather than to become and overcome.  Too seldom do we expose God&rsquo;s nature and character in our preaching.  I think that in some ways we have come to worship the Bible rather than the God who is trying to reveal himself through it.  Most churches that have stopped their traditional invitations have done so because almost everyone one of age in the church has already been baptized at least once and nobody feels safe to make a confession to the whole congregation.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Royce</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2009/02/renewing-our-worship-frontier-revivalism-and-the-invitation/#comment-4683</link>
		<dc:creator>Royce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 09:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/?p=3329#comment-4683</guid>
		<description>Jay, 
 
I remember reading that Billy Graham&#039;s critics had said that the music was in some way causing the great hosts of folks to come forward in his crusades. Deeply troubled by that thought he instructed that at the next nights meeting there would be only silence after his appeal. Graham ended his trademark plea with, &quot;If you came on a bus they&#039;ll wait for you&quot; and pressed his hands together under his chin, closed his eyes, and prayed for God to prick the hearts of the people. All that broke the silence was the shuffle of hundreds of feet as hundreds came to declare they wanted to follow Christ. 
 
Royce </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay, </p>
<p>I remember reading that Billy Graham&#039;s critics had said that the music was in some way causing the great hosts of folks to come forward in his crusades. Deeply troubled by that thought he instructed that at the next nights meeting there would be only silence after his appeal. Graham ended his trademark plea with, &quot;If you came on a bus they&#039;ll wait for you&quot; and pressed his hands together under his chin, closed his eyes, and prayed for God to prick the hearts of the people. All that broke the silence was the shuffle of hundreds of feet as hundreds came to declare they wanted to follow Christ. </p>
<p>Royce</p>
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		<title>By: John Mark Hicks</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2009/02/renewing-our-worship-frontier-revivalism-and-the-invitation/#comment-4682</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mark Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 07:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/?p=3329#comment-4682</guid>
		<description>The early nineteenth century used exhortations to bring people to the mourner&#039;s bench, or in the Stone-Campbell movement to bring them to baptism. 
 
The invitation song is a late nineteenth century innovation.  James A. Harding opposed it as too emotional, for example. 
 
Calvinists, whether Presbyterian or Congregational, divided over the use of exhortations and their emotion in the 18th century--&quot;New Sides/New Lights&quot; vs. &quot;Old Sides/Old Lights.&quot;  Stone, as a Presbyterian, would have fallen in the &quot;New Light&quot; category. 
 
Some conservative Reformed thinkiers, like MIchael Horton (as an example), still oppose the invitation as an Arminian/revivalist ploy. 
 
Thanks for the reflections, Jay. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The early nineteenth century used exhortations to bring people to the mourner&#039;s bench, or in the Stone-Campbell movement to bring them to baptism. </p>
<p>The invitation song is a late nineteenth century innovation.  James A. Harding opposed it as too emotional, for example. </p>
<p>Calvinists, whether Presbyterian or Congregational, divided over the use of exhortations and their emotion in the 18th century&#8211;&quot;New Sides/New Lights&quot; vs. &quot;Old Sides/Old Lights.&quot;  Stone, as a Presbyterian, would have fallen in the &quot;New Light&quot; category. </p>
<p>Some conservative Reformed thinkiers, like MIchael Horton (as an example), still oppose the invitation as an Arminian/revivalist ploy. </p>
<p>Thanks for the reflections, Jay.</p>
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		<title>By: Let&#8217;s Stand for the Invitation &#171; Grace Digest</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/2009/02/renewing-our-worship-frontier-revivalism-and-the-invitation/#comment-4680</link>
		<dc:creator>Let&#8217;s Stand for the Invitation &#171; Grace Digest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 05:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/?p=3329#comment-4680</guid>
		<description>[...] 6, 2009 &#183; No Comments  I just read a good post by Jay Guin over at OneInJesus.info about the tradition of the invitation at the end of a worship service. It [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 6, 2009 &middot; No Comments  I just read a good post by Jay Guin over at OneInJesus.info about the tradition of the invitation at the end of a worship service. It [...]</p>
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