Comments on: Backgrounds of the Restoration Movement: Heresy, Part 2 (The Filioque, Luther, and Zwingli) http://oneinjesus.info/2009/06/backgrounds-of-the-restoration-movement-heresy-part-2-the-filioque-luther-and-zwingli/ Thu, 09 Feb 2012 08:16:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Larry Short http://oneinjesus.info/2009/06/backgrounds-of-the-restoration-movement-heresy-part-2-the-filioque-luther-and-zwingli/#comment-6959 Larry Short Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:53:31 +0000 http://oneinjesus.info/?p=5468#comment-6959 Often a person reacts to the extremes of his era. Luther saw a church selling rights to sin, and slanted to the ends justifies the means. He was courageous to stand up to these problems. However Luther and Calvin went far to the grace only side, and left a formula for salvation that most of the NT church would find alien. Both men loved Romans and Hebrews and disliked James. To them, faith became a mental divorced from physical almost like the Greeks ideas vs physical world. Again if you live with a worldly corrupt church you will likely side with a mental faith. God created the world, our bodies, mind, and soul and said, "it is good." Jesus saw the heart of people but I'm not sure we do. We are left with His "by your fruits..." This is similar to James definition of "living faith" vs a mental belief. I see God favouring what you beleive and what you do, or simply giving your whole self to Him. Raising money for good purposes is fine, but selling rights to sin for fundraising is not. Meeting others to discuss different views of God's will is fine, destroying others for having a different view is not. Lastly, Paul is a good example of someone who was physically fighting Christianity, and when converted, stopped the fight. He longed for the Jews to accept the Messiah, but never wished them all to be destroyed. I wish Luther and Calvin could have stood againist the evils of their day without throwing away what you do being part of what your are or living faith. Often a person reacts to the extremes of his era. Luther saw a church selling rights to sin, and slanted to the ends justifies the means. He was courageous to stand up to these problems. However Luther and Calvin went far to the grace only side, and left a formula for salvation that most of the NT church would find alien. Both men loved Romans and Hebrews and disliked James. To them, faith became a mental divorced from physical almost like the Greeks ideas vs physical world. Again if you live with a worldly corrupt church you will likely side with a mental faith.
God created the world, our bodies, mind, and soul and said, "it is good." Jesus saw the heart of people but I'm not sure we do. We are left with His "by your fruits…" This is similar to James definition of "living faith" vs a mental belief.
I see God favouring what you beleive and what you do, or simply giving your whole self to Him. Raising money for good purposes is fine, but selling rights to sin for fundraising is not. Meeting others to discuss different views of God's will is fine, destroying others for having a different view is not.
Lastly, Paul is a good example of someone who was physically fighting Christianity, and when converted, stopped the fight. He longed for the Jews to accept the Messiah, but never wished them all to be destroyed. I wish Luther and Calvin could have stood againist the evils of their day without throwing away what you do being part of what your are or living faith.

]]> By: Anonymous http://oneinjesus.info/2009/06/backgrounds-of-the-restoration-movement-heresy-part-2-the-filioque-luther-and-zwingli/#comment-6958 Anonymous Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:03:27 +0000 http://oneinjesus.info/?p=5468#comment-6958 Amen Gary. Most Grace centered churches see God as Luther did - God as being who is just but also who has love, mercy, and compassion. Amen Gary.

Most Grace centered churches see God as Luther did – God as being who is just but also who has love, mercy, and compassion.

]]> By: Gary Cummings http://oneinjesus.info/2009/06/backgrounds-of-the-restoration-movement-heresy-part-2-the-filioque-luther-and-zwingli/#comment-6957 Gary Cummings Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:35:45 +0000 http://oneinjesus.info/?p=5468#comment-6957 Actually Calvin and Luther were the most significant Reformation leaders. Zwingli was a bit player, and left his mark on not a lot, except to drown Anabaptists, and to come up with the "where the Bible is silent, we are silent. where the Bible speaks, we speak." He like the Churches of Christ kind of cherry-picked where they thought the Bible spoke and where the Bible was silent. Tom Olbricht in his book about the churches of Christ and interpretation clearly identified Zwingli's principle of silence as being rather normative for the Church of Christ. I believe that Calvin's portrayal of God is monstrous. He makes God out to be worse than Hitler, Stalin and other maniacs of the world. Predestining people to either salvation or damnation-at the whim of a remote divine being. Zwingli made the Bible a paper-pope. Then he assumed the role of The interpreter, and enforced his theology with the sword. Luther, with all of his flaws, had a lot right: salvation by faith alone in the finished work of Jesus. He taught that we were once sinners and justified at the same time. That makes a lot of sense. A saved person still sins and is capable of sin, but is still redeemed, saved and justified by the grace of God. This is perhaps ONE of the big truths of the Bible the 20th Century Restoration Movement got very wrong. -Gary Actually Calvin and Luther were the most significant Reformation leaders. Zwingli was a bit player, and left his mark on not a lot, except to drown Anabaptists, and to come up with the "where the Bible is silent, we are silent. where the Bible speaks, we speak." He like the Churches of Christ kind of cherry-picked where they thought the Bible spoke and where the Bible was silent. Tom Olbricht in his book about the churches of Christ and interpretation clearly identified Zwingli's principle of silence as being rather normative for the Church of Christ.
I believe that Calvin's portrayal of God is monstrous. He makes God out to be worse than Hitler, Stalin and other maniacs of the world. Predestining people to either salvation or damnation-at the whim of a remote divine being.
Zwingli made the Bible a paper-pope. Then he assumed the role of The interpreter, and enforced his theology with the sword.
Luther, with all of his flaws, had a lot right: salvation by faith alone in the finished work of Jesus. He taught that we were once sinners and justified at the same time. That makes a lot of sense. A saved person still sins and is capable of sin, but is still redeemed, saved and justified by the grace of God. This is perhaps ONE of the big truths of the Bible the 20th Century Restoration Movement got very wrong.
-Gary

]]> By: nick gill http://oneinjesus.info/2009/06/backgrounds-of-the-restoration-movement-heresy-part-2-the-filioque-luther-and-zwingli/#comment-6956 nick gill Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:52:41 +0000 http://oneinjesus.info/?p=5468#comment-6956 I read somewhere (I want to say NT Wright but can't confirm that right now) that the biggest blowup over the Filioque was that the Latin authorities convened the assembly before the Easterns showed up, and held the vote on the Filioque before they arrived. Our ability to assign subhuman status to our enemies is fearsome. Perhaps it is at the heart of the difference between Zealotry and gospel-drven Homothumadon -- Zealotry defines our enemies as sub-humans so we can kill them guiltlessly, while the gospel insists that no matter how fierce our differences with others, they ARE humans made in God's image just as we are, and we must love them rather than destroy them. I read somewhere (I want to say NT Wright but can't confirm that right now) that the biggest blowup over the Filioque was that the Latin authorities convened the assembly before the Easterns showed up, and held the vote on the Filioque before they arrived.

Our ability to assign subhuman status to our enemies is fearsome. Perhaps it is at the heart of the difference between Zealotry and gospel-drven Homothumadon — Zealotry defines our enemies as sub-humans so we can kill them guiltlessly, while the gospel insists that no matter how fierce our differences with others, they ARE humans made in God's image just as we are, and we must love them rather than destroy them.

]]> By: cordobatim http://oneinjesus.info/2009/06/backgrounds-of-the-restoration-movement-heresy-part-2-the-filioque-luther-and-zwingli/#comment-6955 cordobatim Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:26:30 +0000 http://oneinjesus.info/?p=5468#comment-6955 Tribalism has been a problem for humanity throughout time, allowing mankind to be divided into "us" and "them." Jesus came to tear down barriers between man and God, but also between man and man. No Jews. No Greeks. No barbarians. No slaves. No free. Just Christians. Unfortunately, we've worked hard ever since to preserve tribalism while claiming to be Christians. Keep shining light on this evil! Grace and peace, Tim Archer Tribalism has been a problem for humanity throughout time, allowing mankind to be divided into "us" and "them." Jesus came to tear down barriers between man and God, but also between man and man. No Jews. No Greeks. No barbarians. No slaves. No free. Just Christians.

Unfortunately, we've worked hard ever since to preserve tribalism while claiming to be Christians.

Keep shining light on this evil!

Grace and peace,
Tim Archer

]]> By: Todd http://oneinjesus.info/2009/06/backgrounds-of-the-restoration-movement-heresy-part-2-the-filioque-luther-and-zwingli/#comment-6954 Todd Tue, 23 Jun 2009 07:57:20 +0000 http://oneinjesus.info/?p=5468#comment-6954 IT never ceases to amaze how God uses such flawed creatures as ourselves to accomplish His great works. IT never ceases to amaze how God uses such flawed creatures as ourselves to accomplish His great works.

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