Yes, Anon brought up the temple cleansing too. i admit i have to think about how it challenges my overall view and what it all means. Your point about a clearer definition of violence is a key, seeing as how parental discipline could also be thought of as "violence."

It still doesn't convince me otherwise for at least this reason: Christ did not retaliate or kill even under life-threatening circumstances. Now it'd be easy at that point to say Christ had a unique reason to behave in this way. However, Peter explicitly states that we are required to follow Christ's example in this regard (1Peter 2:21f). But that doesn't mean i don't still need to chew on how the temple-cleansing example fits into my scheme and what it might force me to give up.

i have taken a more radical position of no-violence. But many pacifists are softer, sticking with just no killing and no physical retaliation. Since Christ didn't kill anyone, i don't see how the temple-cleansing example counters this weaker position even if it does challenge my position.

Thanks for keeping me thinking,

–Guy

Assume you are worshiping this coming Sunday and someone comes in with a whip made of cords who them proceeds to drive everyone out of the place of worship . . . wouldn't you say that person was acting violently? What if the whip strikes you? Would there be any doubt in your mind that the guy was violent?

I think Christ showed us that doing the work of God may sometimes include the use of force. It may seem like violence. But it is actually an expresion of love. Love for the Lord and for others.

Those who were at the temple that day Jesus drove out the moneychangers may have thought he was acting violently. But he wasn't. He was just cleaning out his own house. He did act with force. He did not act with violence. Even if the whip drew blood or left scares . . . there was no violence. Jesus' actions were based on love. There was no hate in the Son of Man.

Use of force that is an expression of love is not violence. It is not ungodly. It is actually an expression of Christian character.

You might want to check a few other things as well.

Steve Valentine

i'm not sure what to say other than i've never said anything in this entire discussion with arrogance in my heart. i'm here to learn and be challenged same as anyone.

Why do i need to leave this country? Does God require me to do so? i understand that regardless of what country i live in or its regime, my job is to live a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity (1Tim 2:2).

If there is even one single person in the country who used any part of a check that was issued by the government to pay a doctor's bill that performed an abortion, then tax dollars paid for an abortion. However, the only point i intended to make was that tax money can be used for things that are unethical. Yet Christ told me to pay them. Similar, i'm not playing a culpable part in the gunman's death by calling the police as i would be if i actually pulled the trigger myself.

-Guy