Chutes and Chutes

From the Sacred Sandwich.

Not fun but remarkably popular.

About Jay F Guin

My name is Jay Guin, and I’m a retired elder. I wrote The Holy Spirit and Revolutionary Grace about 18 years ago. I’ve spoken at the Pepperdine, Lipscomb, ACU, Harding, and Tulsa lectureships and at ElderLink. My wife’s name is Denise, and I have four sons, Chris, Jonathan, Tyler, and Philip. I have two grandchildren. And I practice law.
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5 Responses to Chutes and Chutes

  1. Hank says:

    It is a shame indeed when believers are deceived into tinking they could be righteous apart from the Savior.

    I wonder what kind of jokes could be made to the other extreme though… (maybe something making fun of and accusing other believers of teaching that because of Jesus — we can teach and practice whatever in the world we feel like? After all, its not about what we do, it's about what Jesus did.)

    Which makes me wonder… We all know that the Bible teaches that a crown of life will be given to all them that "remain faithful unto death." But what does being "faithful" mean? Are there varying levels of "faithfulness"? Or, is it a matter of black and white — either you are faithful or you are not? I mean, is it possible to be more faithful at one point in our lives than we were (or will be) at other times? Were the men and women within the faith hall of fame (Heb 11) any more faithful than any other saved person at any other time? In other words, is it possible to be "more faithful" to God this year than we were last? Conversely, is it possible to be "less faithful"?

    And what about sin? Are there any sins that are any more dangerous to the salvation of our souls than other sins? And, are there varying degrees (or levels) of any particular sin(s)? Take the sin of greed for example. The apostle Paul clearly stated that the "greedy" WILL NOT inheirt the kingdom of God. Well, what does that mean eaxctly? Did he (does God) actually mean that ANY amount (or degree) of greed will keep us from heaven? Surely, he merely meant that a person will be lost ONLY if/and when a person is "really greedy" right? But, do we really know for sure what God meant? Do we really know who, what, where, and when God considers one to be "greedy." We know that Jesus had no house, savings, nor many possesions and was not greedy. But, most of us have all of that. What would it take for us to be considered greedy by God? Can a person be "more greedy" at one point in his life than he was (or will be) at others? Or, is it black and white issue — either one is greedy and will be lost, or he is not greedy at all and will remain saved? Are there levels of greed? Do we need to make sure we are never "too greedy"? Or, no?

    Don't get me wrong, I truly wish every person would be saved and that they could know that they were in fact saved at all times (who wouldn't), but is that really the case?

    Does "being faithful" mean that we must be 100% free from any "greed" (whatever God considers "greedy")? Or….will he accept and give the crown of life to even those that are only 85% free from greed. How bout 60%? And what about jealousy, dishonesty, and/or fear?

    True, Jesus died to forgive the sins of greed, jealousy, lies, and fear. But, does that really mean that his redeemed can actually be greedy, fearful, and jeaouls liars and still be given eternal life? Must we never tell a lie to remain saved? Or, merely not lie too much? But, who knows what God would consider "too much"?

    I hope that people here will be able to help me out of this mess by addressing and clearing up what I have written above. If they can't, I hope they will at least quit making fun of them that honestly struggle over trying to be "good enough."

  2. Hank says:

    Hi all,

    I only enter a reply here in order to keep the "chutes and chutes" post alive. I am really curious as to what others have to say in response to what I have written. Not that I deserve any special attention….but, I believe what I have written is not only pertinent but, worthy of consideration by many with whom I have dialogued.

    Thanks….

    (I understand how busy you must be Jay, but I would really appreciate your thoughts on the comments here whenever you get a chance)

  3. Jerry Starling says:

    Hank,

    When I was first exposed to the Biblical doctrine of grace, I resisted with all my might. I felt, as you evidently do, that if what I was hearing was true, then there would be absolutely no restraints on our behavior or teaching.

    It was when it dawned on me that "The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared unto all men teaching them…." that I began to accept it."

    Grace is not merely a static gift. It is a dynamic teacher of how to live today "in this present evil age" – with genuine hope "in the glorious appearing of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ."

    As Paul continued in Titus, in 3:8 he commanded Titus to "stress these things so that our people will be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good."

    I am running a series on Sound Doctrine right now over at committedtotruth.wordpress.com in which I try to show that the teaching of God's grace is the beginning, middle, and end of "sound doctrine." In the Pastoral Epistles, Paul uses the expressing "trustworthy message" or "trustworthy saying" to identify particular components of "sound doctrine" (see Titus 1:9). There are five of these "trustworthy sayings" in Timothy & Titus, an expression that appears no where else in the Scripture (nor does "sound doctrine" appear any where else in Scripture).

    A careful study of these "sayings" will, I believe, point you to what is really "sound" or healthy teaching in contrast to teaching that merely generates controversy instead of God's work, which is by faith (see 1 Timothy 1:3ff).

    Jerry

  4. Hank says:

    Hi Jerry,

    What do you mean exactly? I don't understand why you would accuse me of resisting the Biblical doctrine of grace?

    Nor do I see how what you've written has anything to do with what I did?

    Thanks though (I guess)

  5. Coelestius says:

    I love this game. Because I know God isn't going to send that guy who never did anything wrong but tell one little white lie to hell to burn for all eternity just because he doesn't believe in Jesus. No God could be that cruel. Keep climbing that chute.

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