Comments on: The Fork in the Road: Moral vs. Positive Law: Love Fulfills the Law

By: Jack Exum Jr

Jack Exum Jr — Tue, 06 Mar 2012 03:47:46 +0000

I’m a bit late with this…. but good point Jay. Seems brethren struggle with grace more than law. Perhaps we feel more comfortable with law than we do grace. But we need grace so much. Of course love should be the souce for obedeince, and grace helps with the imperfection of obedience. Paul’s admonition that without love, we can give everything, speak with tongues of angels, prophecy, etc…but have not love… it profits nothing. Why would this not stand when considering what is done in worship? Of course it stands.

By: nick gill

nick gill — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 17:06:02 +0000

We want to presume that Jesus replaced the Law with a new law, except that Jesus hid the new law in silences, whereas Moses wrote a lengthy, detailed Law. The New Law, therefore, is only for those with the knowledge of how to read the silences — a knowledge that we, the keepers of the Regulative Principle — can’t agree on.

Pure Gnosticism — no wonder there were ascetic Gnostics and uninhibited Gnostics who hated each other. They couldn't agree on what their secret knowledge meant either.

By: Jay Guin

Jay Guin — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:52:27 +0000

Pilgrim,

Exactly.

By: Jay Guin

Jay Guin — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:51:15 +0000

Rich wrote,

I understand we need to worship, pray and study to name a few.

These fit within my understanding of positive law required of God.

If we worship, pray, and study out of compulsion rather than as an outpouring of our love for God and our neighbors, then we've obeyed nothing at all.

Worship cannot be a burden and a duty. If it's not seen a privilege and a delight, you need to get your relationship with God in order.

Praying to the Maker of the universe is a privilege and an honor. If we pray out of duty, well, we shouldn't bother.

Study is a blessing. It's an opportunity to grow closer to God, enrich our lives by understanding him better, to find guidance for how to live in him. If we study because it's a command, well, we've turned a gift on its head.

We've so long preached duty and command that we've taken God's gifts and turned them into burdens and obligations, rather than sources of delight and comfort.

It's like telling your 3-year old daughter — "Go hug daddy or I'll spank you." That'd ruin it for both father and daughter, wouldn't it? What would be the point of such an exercise? Would daddy feel loved? Would the daughter love her daddy more because she wants to avoid a spanking?

There are things that can be taught but can't be commanded.

"Sally, you love daddy so much. Why don't you give him a hug?"

By: pilgrim

pilgrim — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:11:41 +0000

The dynamic of what is happening there is that the young man was a keeper of religious rules but MONEY had his heart. Paul refers to greed as idolatry. Money, wealth and possessions were the young man's idol's (idolatry is one of the main issues in the old covenant that kept people from serving God with ALL their heart, and still today) Jesus says man cannot serve both God and money. The man felt an emptiness, "What do I still lack?" Jesus, able to discern that MONEY ruled the man's heart and not God, gave him the answer he really needed. The passage goes on to talk about how difficult it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. That love of money is still the root of all kinds of evil today and THAT is the cancer that Jesus was trying to get at. And we too can have that same discernment to know "THE issue" that is blocking someone from the kingdom. God has enabled us by His Spirit to help in SPECIFIC ways and not just general principle ways.

By: rey

rey — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 22:48:40 +0000

Read Matthew's version, Matthew 19 for the fullest account before saying "nu uh!"

By: rey

rey — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 22:47:52 +0000

The better way to put this is that ceremony is meaningless and God only cares about morality. Look at the answer to the rich young ruler. He asks: "What must I do to have eternal life?" Jesus' answer is keep the moral commandments. But the man isn't satisfied because what he really wants is not eternal life but perfection. So he says "What do I lack?" Jesus says "if you want to be PERFECT, sell what you have and give to the poor……" Everyone pounces on the lacking part and tries to spin it to mean faith-onylism or ceremonialism one or the other. Both are wrong. The answer on how to have eternal life was keep the moral commandments. The rest was about perfection. Nuff said.

By: pilgrim

pilgrim — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 15:37:45 +0000

By simple, I don't mean easy. It isn't easy, it is a daily cross. It really is and if you don't feel that cross, you may be missing something. But His Yoke is easy and His burden is light.

And I don't mean to imply that He is simple. He isn't. HE is a mystery and His ways beyond finding out.

And I don't mean to imply that I have all this figured out. I don't. But simple childlike obedience is pretty straightforward for even a knucklehead like me.

By: pilgrim

pilgrim — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 12:22:56 +0000

In my mind, Christianity is pretty simple:

God is my God. He loves me and died for me. How can I not love Him in return? Because I love him and because I KNOW that He loves me, I do what He is saying, real time.

Is it once saved always saved? Don't know, don't care. I love and obey Him either way.
Is it faith or works? Does it really matter? I'm going to live by faith and work as hard as I can.
What about election? I feel called, how about you? Either way, I know I have a choice and I choose to love and obey by His Spirit.
What about heaven and hell? I love Jesus and I'm going to heaven. Whoever doesn't love Jesus, well life is hell for them already.

The key to the simplicity is that HE IS ALIVE and amazingly wants to have a relationship with me and His People. Where is my tambourine? I need to dance…

By: pilgrim

pilgrim — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 12:08:06 +0000

Bob and others, I'm not sure you got the point of my list… I wasn't saying we just love all those people the same way… I was saying wisdom is needed to know how to apply love SPECIFICALLY in each scenario. The timid child needs some compassionate embracing warmth. The foul co-worker who claims to be a believer may need a finger in his chest saying, "How dare you wear the name of Christ and tell that dirty joke." When Jesus cleared the temple with a whip, yelling at the top of His lungs, what verse was he using to authorize that? He had no verse. He knew God and God felt angry about that scene so Jesus responded like an angry maniac. He responded with Father's feelings and emotions. We can to. That same Jesus that says, "He who has never sinned, cast the first stone" is the same Jesus that said, "Let the dead bury their own dead. You follow me." And He lives IN US.

There are too many unique scenarios to live based on principles, even the principle of Love. Love is a much better principle to start with, but man shall not live by bread alone but by EVERY WORD THAT CONTINUALLY PROCEEDS (that's the greek) from the mouth of God. He is still speaking and His will can be known. And ignoring that will is a dangerous place to be, whether conservative or liberal or progressive.

Hebrews 12:25
See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him WHO WARNS US FROM HEAVEN?

Hebrews 3:15 As has just been said: “Today, if you HEAR his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion.”

Our upbringing has taught us that God stopped speaking in the first century. The ironic thing is, those words that were written down say loud and clear: GOD STILL SPEAKS

And we have a responsibility to hear and obey. And why wouldn't we want to? We love Him… And if you love Him, you will keep His commands, the ones He can speak to your heart right now… not verses (though verses HELP A TON) but His Voice, leading you through the basics of daily living.

Seriously, if this sounds heretical, I would really appreciate the conversation to continue… are we to live by principles or by a Living Lord?