Comments on: The Fork in the Road: Moral vs. Positive Law: It’s Not a Positive Law Unless It’s a Law

By: nick gill

nick gill — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 17:52:26 +0000

I love to ask so-called conservative ministers how many elders they've appointed in the congregations where they serve.

Every once in a while, it helps loosen up the conversation.

By: paul

paul — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:34:31 +0000

Jay, you said- "We are not saved as individuals and Jesus is not our “personal” Savior. Jesus saves the church — and we are saved into the church. He is our “community Savior.”

I disagree strongly. We ARE saved on an individual basis and our relationship to Jesus IS personal, not corporate. Scripture DOES NOT offer a group plan of salvation, so belonging to "the right church" etc. won't get anyone into Heaven…

By: Todd Collier

Todd Collier — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:28:23 +0000

To build on Ollie, worship must begin within the spirit (or the Spirit) to truly be worship.

By: ollie

ollie — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 22:40:58 +0000

Worship is not always culminated in an outer action, an act, but can be within one's spirit.

ollie

By: Jay Guin

Jay Guin — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 22:38:48 +0000

Tim,

You know, I think we focus on the doctrine (or imagined doctrine) of the assembly because it's a visible differentiator between denominations, and ever since the Reformation, we've seen evangelism as about converting Christians to our denomination.

And this has led to a sense of identity with our denomination, rather than with Jesus. As a result, we take great corporate pride in what we get right and what everyone else gets wrong.

But the Reformation is so, you know, 16th Century. After 500 or so years, it's time to move on.

By: Warren Baldwin

Warren Baldwin — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 22:22:15 +0000

Good article, Jay. It is interesting to read the blogs of people who attend churches other than our own. Where we speak of commands, requirements, etc., they speak of celebration and praise. Not to say they don't have their problems, too, but they may be on to something we have missed when it comes to the assembly and the spirit of community. Thanks for this post.

By: Jerry Starling

Jerry Starling — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:20:25 +0000

Jay,

An excellent post!

I recently did a series on Acceptable Worship in which I addressed some of the principles behind what you discuss here – particularly in three posts: Regulations for Worship; Serve God Acceptably; and The Christian Assembly. Links to these, plus the rest of the fifteen posts in the series are at http://committedtotruth.wordpress.com/acceptable-….

Thank you again for an excellent post.

Jerry Starling

By: cordobatim

cordobatim — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:14:55 +0000

It's interesting how few descriptions we have of Christian assemblies in the New Testament (in proportion to how much time is spent arguing about what is done there). And rarely is worship mentioned in discussing those assemblies. One time is Acts 13:2 [“While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”” (Acts 13:2)], yet I've rarely seen fasting make it to the list of "approved acts."

Grace and peace,
Tim Archer

By: jcjohnson

jcjohnson — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 08:25:57 +0000

Why public reading of scripture didn't make it into the "five acts" is truly puzzling. Excellent point.

The "because-we-are-commanded-to"mentality you describe in this post is frightful, but so is the CONSTANT reference to "commands" during our assemblies.

How many times have we heard the Lord's Supper kicked-off with a reading from I Cor 11 and a statement like, "We are doing this because Jesus and Paul commanded it."?

Yes, Jesus commanded this Supper (one of the few direct commands regarding New Covenant worship), but to state it that way sort of takes the luster off the whole exercise for me. As you pointed out, no one says to their family at Thanksgiving, "Well, I'm glad you could all be here today – after all, it's the law."

Finally, on mandatory attendance at all assemblies – our church family recently had some folks depart our number because we publicly encourage our members to volunteer in rotation to serve food at a local homeless teen shelter…on Wednesday nights (the horror). This obviously required missing our Wed night assembly. First of all, the church leadership condones it. Argument over. Secondly, God forbid 3 or 4 people should miss an assembly once a year to help the needy.

Thanks for this post!

By: Bob Harry

Bob Harry — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 08:25:31 +0000

Jay

I have taught exactly as you have about our worship. Acts 20:7 refers to a custom of convenience and it does not seem like a command. Heb. 10:25 sounds more like a meeting to encourage and stimulate.

On the other hand I think it is great that the format for worship is basically the same for all denomination over the last 2000 years.

1 Cor. 14 is hardly an commedation, but more a rebuke for sloppy worship.

I love "Roberts Rule of Order" for meetings but not for worship. Worship can occur anywhere and in many forms. A little spontunaity might help.

Bob