The Kingdom came with power. The church glorifies the Lord. And yet by our estimation the Kingdom today comprises only 0.03% of the world. I am not suggesting we ignore inspired teaching. I am suggesting we quit pretending to own it.

By the way, Scott's initial system was, Believe, Repent, Confess, Be Baptized, and Receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit. But around the end of the 1800's when the Holiness Movement began to pick up steam, the CoC became uncomfortable with the Spirit because we didn't want to look like "those folks." So the last step "knuckled under" (pun intended). But because it looked so much neater to use all five fingers, someone soon tacked "hear" onto the front end and we've continued to keep a good grip on things ever since.

What evangelists (gospel teachers to the unsaved) are to teach is about Jesus to create faith and those who come to believe in Jesus will properly sorrow for having sinned. So we teach about the need for faith in Jesus and repentance from sin. In Acts 8, Luke says nothing about Philip preaching baptism. But the text makes clear that he had done so in explaining how a sinner is to respond to the call of Jesus Christ. The urgent need is for us to tell others about JESUS, which will cause sinners to want to turn away from sin. We call that repenting. Then, aware of their faith in JESUS, we baptize them "into Christ." At that time, they receive both washing away of sin and also they receive the gift of Jesus coming to live within them. The new birth of water and spirit is completed in repentance and baptism.

It was Walter Scott who made use of a 5-finger exercise and won many converts thereby. As I understand it, his five points were faith, repentance, baptism, remission of sins, and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. Later, replacing the final two which come as a result of the first three, many chose to speak of hearing, believing, confessing faith, repenting, and being baptized. Scott's was the better teaching method, most of us would admit.

Okay, too hypothetical.

What about an American POW in an Afghani prison camp? Where does his salvation fall through the cracks? They simply won't baptize him. Or, they agree to let him baptize himself. Or, his Moslem guard agrees to baptize him; but this is certainly not the one who would have taught him or who was a believer himself in Jesus the Son of God. Is grace still out of reach?

Jesus is on record about "the rules" being made for man, not the other way around. People with servant hearts for God should and do submit to baptism. Most of them, however, are dismissed by our jot and tittlers because they didn't understand it correctly or didn't do it quick enough or … or … or. And as for someone in unusual circumstances who may have a shower handy but no tub at their prison camp, well, they should have stopped by a baptistry on their way to enlist.

I apologize for the tone. And, Ray, I respect your convictions. But Walter Scott himself (who came up the the RM's five-finger method) worried later in life that this system of teaching was not only overly-simplified, but could lead to a rigidity of focus that obscured the gospel itself. The differences of opinion on this blog seem to suggest he was right.

The confession wording is not required, I agree, but, if that belief is not there????

Which is more important if we had to rank them, the belief and faith in Jesus or the act of baptism itself.

My point, is our teaching must be foremost to cause belief, confession, that will bring one to Christ and then in obedience the baptism.

Dan replies,

John, I believe that baptism (the natural response to faith) is one's initial confession of the lordship of Jesus AND the beginning of life-long repentance (seeking the mind of Christ).

Dan

Irony smirks and lurks. Jesus commands that we teach others about HIM, then baptize those who believe the message about HIM. Converts are not expected to know to ask for baptism. Teachers of the gospel are expected simply to baptize new believers. As a result of REPENTANCE and BAPTISM, sin is washed away. Jesus says that the new birth is "of water and spirit." Many, apparently including Jay Guin, are willing to disagree with Jesus. Peter makes clear that the way in is through believers repenting of sin and being baptized. Those who believe Bible truth will never imply sinners are saved by faith alone. Note that what each sinner must DO is to repent because of faith in Jesus. The "BE BAPTIZED" is passive. The new believer can't baptize himself or herself. But the one(s) who told the sinner about Jesus is COMMANDED to baptize the new believer, which Paul says brings the sinner "into Christ." As a result of the new birth of water and spirit, Jesus comes to live within the former sinner (Acts 2:38). This does not precede baptism. It FOLLOWS baptism into Christ.

The confession wording is not required, I agree, but, if that belief is not there????

Which is more important if we had to rank them, the belief and faith in Jesus or the act of baptism itself.

My point, is our teaching must be foremost to cause belief, confession, that will bring one to Christ and then in obedience the baptism.

"Life begins when a baby is BORN."

Can we assume then, Ray, that you have no problem with abortions at any point, up to the moment natural childbirth? If the baby isn't alive until it's born…

Ray also said,

"We are not, cannot ever be, saved by faith alone."

Your refusal to agree with (indeed, your direct contradiction of) the words of Paul is surprising to me, Ray! Do you believe Paul to be uninspired? Please read again Ephesians 2:4-9, and pay special attention to just who is actually *doing* anything: "But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

God loved us, God made us alive, God saved us by grace, God raised us up and seated us with Christ in the heavenly places. None of this is our own doing! You keep saying that "faith alone" isn't enough…why then didn't Paul say "For by grace you have been saved through faith (and your perfect obedience/practice of doctrine/understanding of the purpose of baptism/adherence to the "laws" of the Church of Christ)."??? The fact of the matter is, he didn't. Our faith is what saves us. Not our perfect understanding, not our flawless performance…our faithful submission to the Lordship of Christ saves us from ourselves and our sin.

And Ray, please don't accuse me (as you have others) of having never read Acts, or of having forgotten what it says. I may not be the best student of the Bible, but I have read it. Is baptism important? Certainly. I know of very few churches that teach otherwise. Is our perfect understanding/performance required in order to be found pleasing to God? No, and to teach otherwise is to teach "another gospel, which is no gospel at all." I'm done with teaching "other gospels." I strive to live through my life the life and death of Christ, and will count no man or woman my enemy who likewise submits to Christ…whether they share my understanding of the function of the baptism ritual or not.

Whoever added Acts 8:37 to the story of Philip and the Ethiopian who first heard of Jesus while giving a ride to a hitch-hiker, may have had little more in mind than confessing with the mouth. It would appear that's exactly what he had in mind. It's surely true that our confessing faith needs to be by our "life style," and surely not just once, but continuing throughout our lives as children of God.