Comments on: Author http://oneinjesus.info Wed, 08 Feb 2012 10:13:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Jay Guin http://oneinjesus.info/about-the-author/#comment-66471 Jay Guin Sun, 05 Jun 2011 18:25:03 +0000 http://oneinjesus.info/about-the-author/#comment-66471 Bruce,My thinking doesn’t really fit into the classic Reformation-era dichotomy. I explain my thinking somewhat in the Searching for the Third Way series at <a href="http://oneinjesus.info/index-under-construction/theology-general/searching-for-the-third-way/http://oneinjesus.info/index-under-construction/t... />More recently, I’ve concluded that it’s better to read the scripture in light of the OT and the issues actually being addressed and the arguments actually being made. Thus, when I exegete Ephesians 1, I don’t turn to Calvin or Arminius, but to Exodus, which is the source of much of Paul’s language.The various passages that speak to Calvinistic issues are generally written for other purposes. They may well bear on Calvinism a great deal, but the author wasn’t trying to address the rightness or wrongness of Augustine or Calvin.Therefore, my focus has been to interpret these passages in light of the author’s original intent first and foremost. That doesn’t make the Reformation issues go away, but to me, it makes them of secondary importance.When we interpret in light of First Century thought rather than 16th Century, then and only then are we able to have a good conversation about Calvinism vs. Arminianism.Nonetheless, I’ve addressed perseverance and election in at least two series, which I’d be glad to refer you to if you’re interested. Finally, I don’t consider the old Calvin vs. Arminius dispute a fellowship or salvation issue. It’s not unimportant, but it’s the wrong filter through which to approach the scriptures or fellowship. Bruce,My thinking doesn’t really fit into the classic Reformation-era dichotomy. I explain my thinking somewhat in the Searching for the Third Way series at <a href="http://oneinjesus.info/index-under-construction/theology-general/searching-for-the-third-way/http://oneinjesus.info/index-under-construction/t... />More recently, I’ve concluded that it’s better to read the scripture in light of the OT and the issues actually being addressed and the arguments actually being made. Thus, when I exegete Ephesians 1, I don’t turn to Calvin or Arminius, but to Exodus, which is the source of much of Paul’s language.The various passages that speak to Calvinistic issues are generally written for other purposes. They may well bear on Calvinism a great deal, but the author wasn’t trying to address the rightness or wrongness of Augustine or Calvin.Therefore, my focus has been to interpret these passages in light of the author’s original intent first and foremost. That doesn’t make the Reformation issues go away, but to me, it makes them of secondary importance.When we interpret in light of First Century thought rather than 16th Century, then and only then are we able to have a good conversation about Calvinism vs. Arminianism.Nonetheless, I’ve addressed perseverance and election in at least two series, which I’d be glad to refer you to if you’re interested. Finally, I don’t consider the old Calvin vs. Arminius dispute a fellowship or salvation issue. It’s not unimportant, but it’s the wrong filter through which to approach the scriptures or fellowship.

]]> By: Bruce Kamminga http://oneinjesus.info/about-the-author/#comment-65808 Bruce Kamminga Sat, 04 Jun 2011 23:05:37 +0000 http://oneinjesus.info/about-the-author/#comment-65808 I have one question Do you believe in mans free will to chose to accept Gods gift of salvation? I have one question Do you believe in mans free will to chose to accept Gods gift of salvation?

]]> By: Seeker http://oneinjesus.info/about-the-author/#comment-82 Seeker Thu, 03 Mar 2011 05:54:00 +0000 http://oneinjesus.info/about-the-author/#comment-82 I see you keep some late hours occasionally, also. Thanks for your reply. I need to get The Blue Parakeet book. I haven't started reading your Blue Parakeet comments, yet. I think you would like Tim W's "A Church That Flies". I'm waiting for a copy of "The Church In Transition" that his father wrote in 1990. It was ten years earlier, but looks to have a similar thrust/theme (as does Harris' and Shelly's Second Incarnation book in 1992). It also occurred to me that rather than the books causing something, perhaps it was more the books were written to try to give a voice to something already happening. When did some of the bigger congregations, say, begin adding praise teams, instrumental services, women in more public roles, and so on? As I mentioned, I could see a "vision collision" on the horizon for the eldership, and that was one of the reasons I recently stepped down from my elder position. In the congregation, I can't even say that the Regulative Principle has any particular stranglehold (though some of the membership feels that way), but there is a definite traditional CoC CENI-based look to all that goes on. I simply look at the commands and examples differently,and, thus, arrive at different inferences. I definitely like Al Maxey's Reflective Principle/Approach. I am struggling with what "settling for CENI" ("stopping at CENI"?) does to leadership goals and teaching/equipping/maturing goals. Thanks for listening and for the dialogue. God bless. (P.S. I still don't receive these e-mails/responses at my e-mail address that I type into the dailogue window that pops up when I go to post what I've typed. ??) I see you keep some late hours occasionally, also. Thanks for your reply. I need to get The Blue Parakeet book. I haven't started reading your Blue Parakeet comments, yet.
I think you would like Tim W's "A Church That Flies". I'm waiting for a copy of "The Church In Transition" that his father wrote in 1990. It was ten years earlier, but looks to have a similar thrust/theme (as does Harris' and Shelly's Second Incarnation book in 1992).
It also occurred to me that rather than the books causing something, perhaps it was more the books were written to try to give a voice to something already happening. When did some of the bigger congregations, say, begin adding praise teams, instrumental services, women in more public roles, and so on?
As I mentioned, I could see a "vision collision" on the horizon for the eldership, and that was one of the reasons I recently stepped down from my elder position. In the congregation, I can't even say that the Regulative Principle has any particular stranglehold (though some of the membership feels that way), but there is a definite traditional CoC CENI-based look to all that goes on. I simply look at the commands and examples differently,and, thus, arrive at different inferences. I definitely like Al Maxey's Reflective Principle/Approach. I am struggling with what "settling for CENI" ("stopping at CENI"?) does to leadership goals and teaching/equipping/maturing goals.
Thanks for listening and for the dialogue. God bless.
(P.S. I still don't receive these e-mails/responses at my e-mail address that I type into the dailogue window that pops up when I go to post what I've typed. ??)

]]> By: Jay Guin http://oneinjesus.info/about-the-author/#comment-81 Jay Guin Wed, 02 Mar 2011 05:59:00 +0000 http://oneinjesus.info/about-the-author/#comment-81 Seeker, I'm not familiar with Tim's A Church that Flies. I'm familiar with the other books you mention, but don't know who wrote in response to what. All the books have had some influence. I find Smith's "Male Spiritual Leadership" a deeply flawed book at many levels, but it's had a huge influence in teaching some bad theology and bad ways to do theology. Smith's The Cultural Church never really caught on, but spurred some serious discussion. The book struggled to reach conclusions because Smith labors under a flawed, ad hoc hermeneutic. He is often quite insightful but fails to put it all together because he's trapped in a flawed perspective as to the nature of scripture. There are several books that try to establish a better hermeneutic — and any better hermeneutic will emphasize principles over practices, because that's what the Bible teaches. You might check out the series here on The Blue Parakeet (excellent book by Scot McKnight) and the other series indexed under Hermeneutics here. Critiquing traditional hermeneutics are the series indexed under CENI. Regarding the role of women, you might check out either the series or the ebook Buried Talents. Compare the approach I argue for with Smith's and see which is truer to the Bible. Seeker,

I'm not familiar with Tim's A Church that Flies. I'm familiar with the other books you mention, but don't know who wrote in response to what. All the books have had some influence.

I find Smith's "Male Spiritual Leadership" a deeply flawed book at many levels, but it's had a huge influence in teaching some bad theology and bad ways to do theology.

Smith's The Cultural Church never really caught on, but spurred some serious discussion. The book struggled to reach conclusions because Smith labors under a flawed, ad hoc hermeneutic. He is often quite insightful but fails to put it all together because he's trapped in a flawed perspective as to the nature of scripture.

There are several books that try to establish a better hermeneutic — and any better hermeneutic will emphasize principles over practices, because that's what the Bible teaches.

You might check out the series here on The Blue Parakeet (excellent book by Scot McKnight) and the other series indexed under Hermeneutics here.

Critiquing traditional hermeneutics are the series indexed under CENI.

Regarding the role of women, you might check out either the series or the ebook Buried Talents. Compare the approach I argue for with Smith's and see which is truer to the Bible.

]]> By: Seeker http://oneinjesus.info/about-the-author/#comment-80 Seeker Wed, 02 Mar 2011 04:05:00 +0000 http://oneinjesus.info/about-the-author/#comment-80 Jay, I was asked a good question recently. "What was the response to Tim Woodruff's "A Church That Flies"?" Regarding counterpoint books written, counter point articles: I have "The Cultural Church", for example, but I think that was in response to "The Second Incarnation". I have also seen a less-than-positive F. Lagard Smith review of "A Church That Flies". But, I don't know of material written to refute the book, specifically. Was Smith's "Male Spiritual Leadership" a rebuttal to T. Woodruff? I'd like to say that the reaction was more one of reaction to the principles of the book --- a) churches and their leaderships warning their members to stay away from "change agents" and anything they write, any university/college they are in, etc (presumably supplying names of those agents) or b) churches and their leaderships daring to make changes, hold special meetings and special studies. Perhaps there were many congregations which made changes due to "A Church That Flies"? The initial question is along the lines of "this book resonates so much with what I have been thinking, but what has been the trace-able effect of the book?" P.S. Any more-recent books addressing this principles vs. practice topic? I have stepped down from my eldership position due to this hermeneutics clash. It is creating a good challenge to me, regarding my role, now. So appreciative of the website and the fellowship/encouragement it brings me. God bless. Jay,
I was asked a good question recently. "What was the response to Tim Woodruff's "A Church That Flies"?"
Regarding counterpoint books written, counter point articles:
I have "The Cultural Church", for example, but I think that was in response to "The Second Incarnation". I have also seen a less-than-positive F. Lagard Smith review of "A Church That Flies". But, I don't know of material written to refute the book, specifically. Was Smith's "Male Spiritual Leadership" a rebuttal to T. Woodruff?

I'd like to say that the reaction was more one of reaction to the principles of the book —
a) churches and their leaderships warning their members to stay away from "change agents" and anything they write, any university/college they are in, etc (presumably supplying names of those agents)
or
b) churches and their leaderships daring to make changes, hold special meetings and special studies. Perhaps there were many congregations which made changes due to "A Church That Flies"?

The initial question is along the lines of "this book resonates so much with what I have been thinking, but what has been the trace-able effect of the book?"

P.S. Any more-recent books addressing this principles vs. practice topic? I have stepped down from my eldership position due to this hermeneutics clash. It is creating a good challenge to me, regarding my role, now. So appreciative of the website and the fellowship/encouragement it brings me. God bless.

]]> By: Scott http://oneinjesus.info/about-the-author/#comment-79 Scott Thu, 10 Feb 2011 16:46:00 +0000 http://oneinjesus.info/about-the-author/#comment-79 "And, yes, I realize that in the Churches of Christ there’s a long history of violating this command in our publications, bulletins, and sermons. That just means we need to repent. * No judging motives. No personal invective. No personal insults." "And, yes, I realize that in the Churches of Christ there’s a long history of violating this command in our publications, bulletins, and sermons. That just means we need to repent.

* No judging motives. No personal invective. No personal insults."

]]> By: Bill Brewer http://oneinjesus.info/about-the-author/#comment-78 Bill Brewer Mon, 17 May 2010 21:32:07 +0000 http://oneinjesus.info/about-the-author/#comment-78 Good article on patternism. My critique of the Josh 22:28 "behold the pattern" example is that the question of whether the pattern (replica) of the altar was good or evil depended entirely upon what the Transjordan tribes intended in creating it. The same is true of any patter today. Peace, billb Good article on patternism.

My critique of the Josh 22:28 "behold the pattern" example is that the question of whether the pattern (replica) of the altar was good or evil depended entirely upon what the Transjordan tribes intended in creating it.

The same is true of any patter today.

Peace,

billb

]]> By: Jay Guin http://oneinjesus.info/about-the-author/#comment-77 Jay Guin Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:24:57 +0000 http://oneinjesus.info/about-the-author/#comment-77 Max, Regarding a missionary's (or preacher's) work fund, it's 1099 or W-2 income unless the sponsoring church has an "accountable" plan. The missionary or preacher can deduct what he actually spends in the performance of his duties, in general, but for an employee (rather than an independent contractor) the deductions are itemized deductions subject to a number of limitations. It's much better to have an accountable plan. A plan is "accountable" if payment is only made based on receipts or similar proof that the money is being spent as a legitimate expense of mission or ministry work. The rules for an accountable plan are at http://www.irs.gov/govt/fslg/article/0,,id=164471,00.html And http://www.irs.gov/publications/p463/ch06.html#en_US_publink100034114 And http://www.irs.gov/publications/p463/ch05.html As a rule, you have to have receipts and you have to demonstrate the business purpose of the expense. One way of looking at it is that you have to include the money in income unless you demonstrate either to the IRS or your sponsor that the money was properly spent on a deductible expense. But if you have unlimited control of the funds, it's income subject to whatever deductions you can prove. IRS Publication 463 is a pretty good source for the rules. Max,

Regarding a missionary’s (or preacher’s) work fund, it’s 1099 or W-2 income unless the sponsoring church has an “accountable” plan. The missionary or preacher can deduct what he actually spends in the performance of his duties, in general, but for an employee (rather than an independent contractor) the deductions are itemized deductions subject to a number of limitations. It’s much better to have an accountable plan.

A plan is “accountable” if payment is only made based on receipts or similar proof that the money is being spent as a legitimate expense of mission or ministry work.

The rules for an accountable plan are at http://www.irs.gov/govt/fslg/article/0,,id=164471,00.html And http://www.irs.gov/publications/p463/ch06.html#en_US_publink100034114 And http://www.irs.gov/publications/p463/ch05.html

As a rule, you have to have receipts and you have to demonstrate the business purpose of the expense.

One way of looking at it is that you have to include the money in income unless you demonstrate either to the IRS or your sponsor that the money was properly spent on a deductible expense. But if you have unlimited control of the funds, it’s income subject to whatever deductions you can prove.

IRS Publication 463 is a pretty good source for the rules.

]]> By: Max Crittenden http://oneinjesus.info/about-the-author/#comment-75 Max Crittenden Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:51:59 +0000 http://oneinjesus.info/about-the-author/#comment-75 I am a member of Highland Church of Christ which is in Abilene, Texas. I saw by your blog that you have participated in Lecureships at ACU. We are not supported by Highland but they have been handling our funds and providing tax receipts for our supporters. We are missionaries in Bosnia & Herzegovina for 11+ years. As happens personel changes and many in the church are new since we came to BiH. We recently met with the mission committee and found that only one member of the committe was on it when we started in BiH. When we started in missions our CPA was Brother McCurdy and he had been CPA as a ministry to many coc missionaries. He set up a working fund for us of $20000 dollars and we have never reported this as income. We have never reached the level of the working fund. We receive our main personal income from Social Security because I am at retirement age. The amount handled for us by Highland went from them into a separate fund, all of which was used as working funds. Our actual expenses are greater than the amount of the fund and we make up any deficit from personal income. Highland are very supportive of us but they are now fearful of violating some IRS regulations and they are wanting a written agreement. They have suggested a number of alternatives including calling us employees, having us form a 501c3 corporation, filing a 1099, etc. They also want detailed reports of the way in which we spend the ministry funds. Before now they have not exercised any control over us. They are supportive as I said but they want to do what is right and we do too. When we filed tax returns Brother McCurdy filed them in accordance with his advise on how to report the working funds. They were not reported as income. He has been retired for several years and our total income is far below the minimum and we no longer file returns. I have a couple of questions. One- what receipts should we keep on file for money spent on ministry expenses? I have not read your 12 page memo on missionary reporting so I may have other questions. I too am an attorney and did in fact do a good deal of tax law but I am anything but current today. My second question is this - Several members of coc are in or considering law as a profession. How do you advise such persons? I have recently had a revelation that our Christian lawyers are put in a vise when forced to provide adequate defense for an obviously guilty party. I did not do criminal defense work but I did represent clients whose ethics I found wanting. I realized as I thought about this that the legal system as it is laid out did not provide us with any advise or options how to represent a guilty party other than to provide a vigorous defense; There are times when an honorable coming forth with the truth would be a breath of fresh air. I know that mediation and arbitration is gaining populatity. I also know that CLS has long advocated Christian Mediation or Arbitration as a biblical alternative. I am a member of Highland Church of Christ which is in Abilene, Texas. I saw by your blog that you have participated in Lecureships at ACU.

We are not supported by Highland but they have been handling our funds and providing tax receipts for our supporters. We are missionaries in Bosnia & Herzegovina for 11+ years. As happens personel changes and many in the church are new since we came to BiH. We recently met with the mission committee and found that only one member of the committe was on it when we started in BiH.

When we started in missions our CPA was Brother McCurdy and he had been CPA as a ministry to many coc missionaries. He set up a working fund for us of $20000 dollars and we have never reported this as income. We have never reached the level of the working fund. We receive our main personal income from Social Security because I am at retirement age.

The amount handled for us by Highland went from them into a separate fund, all of which was used as working funds. Our actual expenses are greater than the amount of the fund and we make up any deficit from personal income.

Highland are very supportive of us but they are now fearful of violating some IRS regulations and they are wanting a written agreement. They have suggested a number of alternatives including calling us employees, having us form a 501c3 corporation, filing a 1099, etc. They also want detailed reports of the way in which we spend the ministry funds.

Before now they have not exercised any control over us. They are supportive as I said but they want to do what is right and we do too.

When we filed tax returns Brother McCurdy filed them in accordance with his advise on how to report the working funds. They were not reported as income. He has been retired for several years and our total income is far below the minimum and we no longer file returns.

I have a couple of questions. One- what receipts should we keep on file for money spent on ministry expenses?

I have not read your 12 page memo on missionary reporting so I may have other questions.

I too am an attorney and did in fact do a good deal of tax law but I am anything but current today.

My second question is this – Several members of coc are in or considering law as a profession. How do you advise such persons?

I have recently had a revelation that our Christian lawyers are put in a vise when forced to provide adequate defense for an obviously guilty party. I did not do criminal defense work but I did represent clients whose ethics I found wanting.

I realized as I thought about this that the legal system as it is laid out did not provide us with any advise or options how to represent a guilty party other than to provide a vigorous defense;
There are times when an honorable coming forth with the truth would be a breath of fresh air. I know that mediation and arbitration is gaining populatity. I also know that CLS has long advocated Christian Mediation or Arbitration as a biblical alternative.

]]> By: Jay Guin http://oneinjesus.info/about-the-author/#comment-76 Jay Guin Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:12:13 +0000 http://oneinjesus.info/about-the-author/#comment-76 Sid, I'm glad to have you as a reader. You might take a look at the Surprised by Hope series. <a href="http://oneinjesus.info/index-under-construction/eschatology/surprised-by-hope/" rel="nofollow">http://oneinjesus.info/index-under-construction/e...</a> Also regarding where the dead are before the Judgment, see <a href="http://oneinjesus.info/2008/07/05/surprised-by-hope-where-are-the-dead-part-1/" rel="nofollow">Where Are the Dead? Part 1</a> <a href="http://oneinjesus.info/2008/07/05/surprised-by-hope-where-are-the-dead-part-2/" rel="nofollow">Where Are the Dead? Part 2</a> <a href="http://oneinjesus.info/2008/07/05/surprised-by-hope-where-are-the-dead-part-3/" rel="nofollow">Where Are the Dead? Part 3</a> Sid,

I'm glad to have you as a reader.

You might take a look at the Surprised by Hope series. http://oneinjesus.info/index-under-construction/e…

Also regarding where the dead are before the Judgment, see

Where Are the Dead? Part 1

Where Are the Dead? Part 2

Where Are the Dead? Part 3

]]>