<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Do We Teach Another Gospel?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://oneinjesus.info/books-by-jay-guin/do-we-teach-another-gospel/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://oneinjesus.info</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 00:26:48 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: One In Jesus &#187; New Wineskins, In Reply to Kyle Pope (Does Galatians Apply to Instrumental Music?)</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/books-by-jay-guin/do-we-teach-another-gospel/#comment-54</link>
		<dc:creator>One In Jesus &#187; New Wineskins, In Reply to Kyle Pope (Does Galatians Apply to Instrumental Music?)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2010 12:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/do-we-teach-another-gospel/#comment-54</guid>
		<description>[...] Do We Teach Another Gospel? [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Do We Teach Another Gospel? [...] </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Theodore A. Jones</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/books-by-jay-guin/do-we-teach-another-gospel/#comment-53</link>
		<dc:creator>Theodore A. Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 May 2010 08:40:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/do-we-teach-another-gospel/#comment-53</guid>
		<description>&quot;Do We Teach Another Gospel?&quot; yes, but every other contemporary church, regardless of the denominational tag, does too. What you all need to realize is that &quot;few find it&quot; is not an understatement, and &quot;make every effort to use&quot; is imperative. At this point I suspect you&#039;re thinking &quot;What upstart is this?&quot; but don&#039;t be so quick to judge. While I am not affiliated with the COC in any way I do commend you folks, in a general sense, to using your Bibles having not abandoned it. Perhaps progress can be made for &quot;It is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God&#039;s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.&quot; Rom. 2:13 
What you need to do is identify which law this is because a law has been added by Jesus&#039; crucifixion. Ref. Rom. 5:20 &amp; Heb. 7:12. The common error of &quot;another gospel&quot; is the false conclusion that that crucifixion of Jesus is a direct benefit, but it is not. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Do We Teach Another Gospel?&quot; yes, but every other contemporary church, regardless of the denominational tag, does too. What you all need to realize is that &quot;few find it&quot; is not an understatement, and &quot;make every effort to use&quot; is imperative. At this point I suspect you&#039;re thinking &quot;What upstart is this?&quot; but don&#039;t be so quick to judge. While I am not affiliated with the COC in any way I do commend you folks, in a general sense, to using your Bibles having not abandoned it. Perhaps progress can be made for &quot;It is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God&#039;s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.&quot; <a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/romans+2%3A13' class='bible-tip bible-tip-romans_2%3A13'>Rom. 2:13</a><br />
What you need to do is identify which law this is because a law has been added by Jesus&#039; crucifixion. Ref. <a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/romans+5%3A20' class='bible-tip bible-tip-romans_5%3A20'>Rom. 5:20</a> &amp; <a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/hebrews+7%3A12' class='bible-tip bible-tip-hebrews_7%3A12'>Heb. 7:12</a>. The common error of &quot;another gospel&quot; is the false conclusion that that crucifixion of Jesus is a direct benefit, but it is not. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Hermeneutics: Email about Noninstitutionalism &#171; One In Jesus.info</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/books-by-jay-guin/do-we-teach-another-gospel/#comment-52</link>
		<dc:creator>Hermeneutics: Email about Noninstitutionalism &#171; One In Jesus.info</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Feb 2010 04:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/do-we-teach-another-gospel/#comment-52</guid>
		<description>[...] Do We Teach Another&#160;Gospel? [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Do We Teach Another&nbsp;Gospel? [...] </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Fork in the Road: Moral vs. Positive Law: Love Fulfills the Law &#171; One In Jesus.info</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/books-by-jay-guin/do-we-teach-another-gospel/#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator>The Fork in the Road: Moral vs. Positive Law: Love Fulfills the Law &#171; One In Jesus.info</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 12:03:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/do-we-teach-another-gospel/#comment-51</guid>
		<description>[...] Do We Teach Another&#160;Gospel? [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Do We Teach Another&nbsp;Gospel? [...] </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jody B.</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/books-by-jay-guin/do-we-teach-another-gospel/#comment-50</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 21:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/do-we-teach-another-gospel/#comment-50</guid>
		<description>Gary, I was getting a little short, and needed to take a long break.  I don&#039;t like to respond out of impatience as I often do. 
 
Getting back to exegesis; Paul&#039;s discourse before he reaches the description of elders states that women were to learn in complete submission, and were forbade from having authority over a man.  This could not be cultural, as Paul clearly stated the reason for this directive as being the deception of Eve and most likely a result of God&#039;s statement that the man will rule the woman in Gen. 3.  In addition, since the description of PRESBUTEROS in Titus also makes the reference to overseer, the gender rules regarding husband of one wife still apply there.  I THOROUGHLY AGREE (caps for emphasis, not screaming) with your analysis that &quot;the husband of one wife&quot; refers to monogamy.  More specifically, it was likely a prohibition of polygamy.  That still does not change the fact that he said &quot;husband&quot;.  In addition, there were specific instructions to Titus that an overseer must be able to exhort using sound doctrine and and refute those who contradict (apt to teach according to Paul&#039;s description in the first letter to Timothy).  One cannot logically say that Paul meant for women to learn in submission and forbade them to teach a man in I Tim 2 or speak in the assembly I Cor 14, and then authorize them to teach men in chapter 3.  Now Jay makes an argument that woman&#039;s subjection to man is not an all-time command with his example of the immolation of the Scottish woman that took sedatives during childbirth, but that argument is faulty at best.  Some women naturally feel little, others feel a lot.  If a woman happens to have a child and feels little pain in the process, is that an excuse to break the other directive of God?  BTW, no matter how much sedative a woman takes, this doesn&#039;t take away the fact that pain is still part of the process.  Once again, this is a human argument against an inspired directive.  BTW, I could care less what Campbell, Stone et.al. have to say regarding the matter.  They were neither inspired nor infallible.  I&#039;m simply using Paul&#039;s words as best I can to make a sound judgment. 
 
The gender reference in I Tim 3:11 regarding deacons I think is more unclear.  Therefore, you MAY be right in your assessment that women could have served as appointed deacons during that time.  My wife certainly fulfills that role as described in Acts within our house as a true &quot;wife of noble character&quot;.  However, the gender reference still remains in the description &quot;husband of one wife&quot;.  Furthermore, the description of Phoebe serving in the appointed office of deacon as some have deducted in Rom 16:1 is not consistent with the role of women in church governance found elsewhere.  Therefore, Paul may have simply used DIAKONOS in the form of servant as translated in the NASB.  My faith and lack of knowledge will not let me draw the conclusion that women were or would be authorized to serve in that role.  A more thorough description of deacons can be found here. &lt;a href=&quot;http://bible.org/article/deacons-and-leadership-church&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://bible.org/article/deacons-and-leadership-c...&lt;/a&gt; 
 
We could go on arguing all day and night about this, but I don&#039;t want to get caught up in chasing rabbits in light of the fact that we cannot be presumptuous regarding God&#039;s church.  It is, after all, His and I&#039;d rather run it how He commands instead of reacting to the feminist agenda and using worldly wisdom and thereby invoking unintended consequences for future generations. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary, I was getting a little short, and needed to take a long break.  I don&#039;t like to respond out of impatience as I often do. </p>
<p>Getting back to exegesis; Paul&#039;s discourse before he reaches the description of elders states that women were to learn in complete submission, and were forbade from having authority over a man.  This could not be cultural, as Paul clearly stated the reason for this directive as being the deception of Eve and most likely a result of God&#039;s statement that the man will rule the woman in <a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/genesis+3' class='bible-tip bible-tip-genesis_3'>Gen. 3</a>.  In addition, since the description of PRESBUTEROS in Titus also makes the reference to overseer, the gender rules regarding husband of one wife still apply there.  I THOROUGHLY AGREE (caps for emphasis, not screaming) with your analysis that &quot;the husband of one wife&quot; refers to monogamy.  More specifically, it was likely a prohibition of polygamy.  That still does not change the fact that he said &quot;husband&quot;.  In addition, there were specific instructions to Titus that an overseer must be able to exhort using sound doctrine and and refute those who contradict (apt to teach according to Paul&#039;s description in the first letter to Timothy).  One cannot logically say that Paul meant for women to learn in submission and forbade them to teach a man in <a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/1+timothy+2' class='bible-tip bible-tip-1_timothy_2'>I Tim 2</a> or speak in the assembly <a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/1+corinthians+14' class='bible-tip bible-tip-1_corinthians_14'>I Cor 14</a>, and then authorize them to teach men in chapter 3.  Now Jay makes an argument that woman&#039;s subjection to man is not an all-time command with his example of the immolation of the Scottish woman that took sedatives during childbirth, but that argument is faulty at best.  Some women naturally feel little, others feel a lot.  If a woman happens to have a child and feels little pain in the process, is that an excuse to break the other directive of God?  BTW, no matter how much sedative a woman takes, this doesn&#039;t take away the fact that pain is still part of the process.  Once again, this is a human argument against an inspired directive.  BTW, I could care less what Campbell, Stone et.al. have to say regarding the matter.  They were neither inspired nor infallible.  I&#039;m simply using Paul&#039;s words as best I can to make a sound judgment. </p>
<p>The gender reference in <a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/1+timothy+3%3A11' class='bible-tip bible-tip-1_timothy_3%3A11'>I Tim 3:11</a> regarding deacons I think is more unclear.  Therefore, you MAY be right in your assessment that women could have served as appointed deacons during that time.  My wife certainly fulfills that role as described in Acts within our house as a true &quot;wife of noble character&quot;.  However, the gender reference still remains in the description &quot;husband of one wife&quot;.  Furthermore, the description of Phoebe serving in the appointed office of deacon as some have deducted in <a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/romans+16%3A1' class='bible-tip bible-tip-romans_16%3A1'>Rom 16:1</a> is not consistent with the role of women in church governance found elsewhere.  Therefore, Paul may have simply used DIAKONOS in the form of servant as translated in the NASB.  My faith and lack of knowledge will not let me draw the conclusion that women were or would be authorized to serve in that role.  A more thorough description of deacons can be found here. <a href="http://bible.org/article/deacons-and-leadership-church" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://bible.org/article/deacons-and-leadership-c" rel="nofollow">http://bible.org/article/deacons-and-leadership-c</a>&#8230; </p>
<p>We could go on arguing all day and night about this, but I don&#039;t want to get caught up in chasing rabbits in light of the fact that we cannot be presumptuous regarding God&#039;s church.  It is, after all, His and I&#039;d rather run it how He commands instead of reacting to the feminist agenda and using worldly wisdom and thereby invoking unintended consequences for future generations. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gary Cummings</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/books-by-jay-guin/do-we-teach-another-gospel/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Cummings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 08:58:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/do-we-teach-another-gospel/#comment-49</guid>
		<description>Jody, 
Do a little more work on your exegesis. &quot;The husband of one wife&quot; probably means , according to the best interpreters a &quot;one-woman man&quot;. This means he is to be faithful to his wife and not a &quot;playboy&quot;. In your traditional interpretation, you mean it to say that &quot;an elder must be a man&quot;. The text does not say that.. In 1st Tim 3:1-7, Paul addresses the calling and appointment of elders. then in 8-13, Deacons are discussed, and both men and women are mentioned in the context of the diaconate. Now why doesn&#039;t the COC recognize that the NT allows for women deacons?  &quot;Women&quot; in verse 11, does not refer to the &quot;wives&quot; of deacons, rather women to be appointed as deacons. 
 
Stone-Campbell wisdom and sectarian intellect do not trump inspiration of the Holy Spirit. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jody,<br />
Do a little more work on your exegesis. &quot;The husband of one wife&quot; probably means , according to the best interpreters a &quot;one-woman man&quot;. This means he is to be faithful to his wife and not a &quot;playboy&quot;. In your traditional interpretation, you mean it to say that &quot;an elder must be a man&quot;. The text does not say that.. In <a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/1+timothy+3%3A1-7' class='bible-tip bible-tip-1_timothy_3%3A1-7'>1st Tim 3:1-7</a>, Paul addresses the calling and appointment of elders. then in 8-13, Deacons are discussed, and both men and women are mentioned in the context of the diaconate. Now why doesn&#039;t the COC recognize that the NT allows for women deacons?  &quot;Women&quot; in verse 11, does not refer to the &quot;wives&quot; of deacons, rather women to be appointed as deacons. </p>
<p>Stone-Campbell wisdom and sectarian intellect do not trump inspiration of the Holy Spirit. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gary Cummings</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/books-by-jay-guin/do-we-teach-another-gospel/#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Cummings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 21:08:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/do-we-teach-another-gospel/#comment-48</guid>
		<description>Jay, 
We need to know what the norm was for faith, ethics and worship for the first followers of Jesus. Then, with good exegesis, we need to learn what is normative for followers of all Jesus through time. That is a tough task, and we need a lot of grace. Sometimes we may make mistakes, sometimes we will fail, and sometimes we will get in right. In spite of all of this, we are still under grace, and love covers a multitude of sins, mistakes and failures. 
 
Faith and I worship from time to time with the local Mennonite churches. Some of the women wear a covering, but most most don&#039;t. My wife wears a covering , and I respect her for that. That was her decision for her faithfulness to Christ. She does not bind that upon others. 
There is a mixture of acapella and instruments in the local churches. I like both, but somehow the acapella rings my bells. People say I sing acapella well, and that must have been from the 5 years I spent with the COC. I still like it a lot. 
 
That being said, I think there is room within the Body of Christ for a little difference in practice:instrumental and acapella, women elders and deacons and preachers, worship on various days of the week, and even differences of when and how often to take the Lord&#039;s Supper. 
 
If congregations are truly autonomous, why can&#039;t we live and let live? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay,<br />
We need to know what the norm was for faith, ethics and worship for the first followers of Jesus. Then, with good exegesis, we need to learn what is normative for followers of all Jesus through time. That is a tough task, and we need a lot of grace. Sometimes we may make mistakes, sometimes we will fail, and sometimes we will get in right. In spite of all of this, we are still under grace, and love covers a multitude of sins, mistakes and failures. </p>
<p>Faith and I worship from time to time with the local Mennonite churches. Some of the women wear a covering, but most most don&#039;t. My wife wears a covering , and I respect her for that. That was her decision for her faithfulness to Christ. She does not bind that upon others.<br />
There is a mixture of acapella and instruments in the local churches. I like both, but somehow the acapella rings my bells. People say I sing acapella well, and that must have been from the 5 years I spent with the COC. I still like it a lot. </p>
<p>That being said, I think there is room within the Body of Christ for a little difference in practice:instrumental and acapella, women elders and deacons and preachers, worship on various days of the week, and even differences of when and how often to take the Lord&#039;s Supper. </p>
<p>If congregations are truly autonomous, why can&#039;t we live and let live? </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gary Cummings</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/books-by-jay-guin/do-we-teach-another-gospel/#comment-47</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Cummings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 20:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/do-we-teach-another-gospel/#comment-47</guid>
		<description>Ken, 
With many words, you actually didn&#039;t say much, except to give the traditional COC view. I think Paul makes it very simple: 
&quot;I&#039;m  not ashamed of the Good News, It is God&#039;s power to save everyone who believes, Jews first and Greeks as well. God&#039;s approval is revealed in this Good News. This approval begins and ends with faith as Scripture says: &quot;The person who has God&#039;s approval will live because of faith.&quot; Romans 1:16-17. 
 
Not one word is mentioned about baptism here. It is faith in God and receiving His righteousness that saves us-from first to last. From the first minute we say &quot;I believe in Jesus&quot; till we take our last breath and say: &quot;into your hands, oh Lord!&quot; 
 
We obtain God&#039;s approval by faith in the finished work of Jesus on the cross and His bodily resurrection. Then we are declared righteous. Then we are baptized because we have been saved. The Baptists have baptism right. We are baptized because we have been saved, not to be saved.  It is like  getting married for love. We are married because we are already in love, It is the same way with baptism, we are baptized because because we are already saved by faith. 
 
God bless you. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken,<br />
With many words, you actually didn&#039;t say much, except to give the traditional COC view. I think Paul makes it very simple:<br />
&quot;I&#039;m  not ashamed of the Good News, It is God&#039;s power to save everyone who believes, Jews first and Greeks as well. God&#039;s approval is revealed in this Good News. This approval begins and ends with faith as Scripture says: &quot;The person who has God&#039;s approval will live because of faith.&quot; <a href='http://biblefox.com/bible/romans+1%3A16-17' class='bible-tip bible-tip-romans_1%3A16-17'>Romans 1:16-17</a>. </p>
<p>Not one word is mentioned about baptism here. It is faith in God and receiving His righteousness that saves us-from first to last. From the first minute we say &quot;I believe in Jesus&quot; till we take our last breath and say: &quot;into your hands, oh Lord!&quot; </p>
<p>We obtain God&#039;s approval by faith in the finished work of Jesus on the cross and His bodily resurrection. Then we are declared righteous. Then we are baptized because we have been saved. The Baptists have baptism right. We are baptized because we have been saved, not to be saved.  It is like  getting married for love. We are married because we are already in love, It is the same way with baptism, we are baptized because because we are already saved by faith. </p>
<p>God bless you. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jody B.</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/books-by-jay-guin/do-we-teach-another-gospel/#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 20:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/do-we-teach-another-gospel/#comment-46</guid>
		<description>Gary, c&#039;mon.  You can&#039;t honestly second guess &quot;the husband of one-wife&quot; can you.  As for the &quot;this is a trustworthy saying&quot; argument by Jay, you honestly don&#039;t think Paul was inspired one minute and just turned around and said, &quot;hey Spirit leave me alone and let me write this down while you get me a cup of coffee&quot; do you?  You can get in an argument about gender neutral language all you want, but there are plenty of other references in which Paul states the role of women in the assembly (praying and prophesying only), states that women are not to be in authority over or teach a man (which is one of the primary roles of an elder) AND gives specific orders for the wife to be in submission to the husband.  Now you may argue that elders do not have authority for all I know, but they are responsible for the affairs of the church, so I&#039;ll stop there. 
 
Human wisdom and intellect does not trump inspiration of the Holy Spirit.  This is total reactionary doctrine to the feminist movement of the 1960&#039;s and we would not be holding this argument but for that. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary, c&#039;mon.  You can&#039;t honestly second guess &quot;the husband of one-wife&quot; can you.  As for the &quot;this is a trustworthy saying&quot; argument by Jay, you honestly don&#039;t think Paul was inspired one minute and just turned around and said, &quot;hey Spirit leave me alone and let me write this down while you get me a cup of coffee&quot; do you?  You can get in an argument about gender neutral language all you want, but there are plenty of other references in which Paul states the role of women in the assembly (praying and prophesying only), states that women are not to be in authority over or teach a man (which is one of the primary roles of an elder) AND gives specific orders for the wife to be in submission to the husband.  Now you may argue that elders do not have authority for all I know, but they are responsible for the affairs of the church, so I&#039;ll stop there. </p>
<p>Human wisdom and intellect does not trump inspiration of the Holy Spirit.  This is total reactionary doctrine to the feminist movement of the 1960&#039;s and we would not be holding this argument but for that. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gary Cummings</title>
		<link>http://oneinjesus.info/books-by-jay-guin/do-we-teach-another-gospel/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Cummings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 20:36:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oneinjesus.info/do-we-teach-another-gospel/#comment-45</guid>
		<description>Ken, 
With many words, you actually didn&#039;t say much, except to give the traditional COC view. I think Paul makes it very simple: 
&quot;I&#039;m  not ashamed of the Good News, It is God&#039;s power to save everyone who believes, Jews first and Greeks as well. God&#039;s approval is revealed in this Good News. This approval begins and ends with faith as Scripture says: &quot;The person who has God&#039;s approva </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken,<br />
With many words, you actually didn&#039;t say much, except to give the traditional COC view. I think Paul makes it very simple:<br />
&quot;I&#039;m  not ashamed of the Good News, It is God&#039;s power to save everyone who believes, Jews first and Greeks as well. God&#039;s approval is revealed in this Good News. This approval begins and ends with faith as Scripture says: &quot;The person who has God&#039;s approva </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

