Comments for One In Jesus

Comment on The New Perspective: The Theology of Community by Darlene

Darlene — Sat, 04 Feb 2012 00:51:19 +0000

Enjoyed this! Many thanks! Good food for thought for the good community!

Comment on Elders: On the Authority of Elders, Part 5 (Bad Elders) by Price

Price — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 19:29:23 +0000

Alexander….perhaps the listing of various qualifications and gifting by the Holy Spirit speaks to the character and empowerment necessary to address a limitless number of potential needs in every generation… One would think that someone leader of the church should probably be designated to make sure the church is in compliance with various tax regulations, zoning laws, etc., etc., that might severely impact the church…

Comment on Elders: On the Authority of Elders, Part 5 (Bad Elders) by aBasnar

aBasnar — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 19:06:58 +0000

“The elders decide to buy a tract of land on the outskirts of town for future building. Without consulting anyone, they buy the land and mortgage the present building to finance it. Turns out nobody else in the congregation likes the idea at all.”

How does such a decision fit to the requirements for elders?

1Ti 3:2 Then it behooves the overseer to be without reproach, husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, well-ordered, hospitable, apt at teaching,
1Ti 3:3 not a drunkard, not contentious, not greedy of ill gain, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous,
1Ti 3:4 ruling his own house well, having children in subjection with all honor.
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man does not know to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 not a novice, lest being puffed up he may fall into the condemnation of the Devil.
1Ti 3:7 But he must also have a good report from those on the outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the Devil.

Which of these has any connection to “strategic investments”? None; so elders who focus on such matters entirely miss the point of their calling. Elders are not called to manage the business affairs of a church, that’s not their business. And therefore nothing in the requirements for this “noble task” even hints to such.

Aside of that Christians are called to avoid going into debt. We should teach more about that, maybe. So buying land or houses for money we don’t have, yet, is in itself questionable, regardless whether we speak of individuals or of churches.

Alexander

Comment on The Book of Rules by aBasnar

aBasnar — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 18:49:33 +0000

But seriously: What’s so wrong about rules? Aren’t they necessary as soon as only two people agree to do something together even for only a few moments, not to speak about living together for a lifetime. Each marriage has rules, normally unwritten ones. A church of Christ called to be a visibvle example of God’s Kingdom lives by Royal Rules, which are set forth in the Bible, of course, but – and that leads to unwritten rules! – we sometimes have to be more specific in our applications than it is spelled out in scripture (here we go: Necessary Inferences – only naive ones can believe we can get by without them).

So, we may get a grin out of the cartoon, but there is a serious (and I’d say even necessary) side to it. It’s better to be open about it than to pretend we only go by scripture. There is no church on earth that goes by the Bible alone, not ONE. It does not work.

Alexander

Comment on Elders: On the Authority of Elders, Part 5 (Bad Elders) by Todd Collier

Todd Collier — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 18:47:37 +0000

Wow. OK, that is a “bad” decision. I am not sure it would cause me to walk away but a decision of that magnitude that is going to require the membership to pony up the dough over the next decade or so needs to be discussed with the folks footing the bills.

And it is not a “power” thing but a “respect” thing. There is no way I would trade in our car without consulting with my wife even though I manage all of the financial affairs of the household. The same would be the case for these shepherds. Sure you are the “overseers” but you need to have a bit of respect for the sheep.

Comment on Elders: Questions by Charles McLean

Charles McLean — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 14:39:01 +0000

Laymond wrote: “I know I have already gotten into enough trouble here for suggesting we should follow what Jesus said, but I am just a glutton for punishment.”
>>>
Laymond, you are suggesting by this statement that those of us who don’t follow your reasoning are somehow not interested in following what Jesus said. This is patently untrue and seems specifically designed to try to shame people who disagree with you into shutting up. Your brothers deserve better treatment.

By the way, if we are to follow “what Jesus said”, he SAID that the Holy Spirit would come and take what is of Jesus and make it known to us. You agree that the Holy Spirit inspired the NT scripture, so how do you now disregard parts of it as of lesser significance than the “red letters” and call this “following what Jesus said”?

Comment on Elders: On the Authority of Elders, Part 5 (Bad Elders) by Charles McLean

Charles McLean — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 14:25:18 +0000

If we are going to look at how to respond to “bad” decisions, how about looking at the simplest form? That is, a decision that was neither intrinsically right or wrong, nor even doctrinal in nature. “The elders decide to buy a tract of land on the outskirts of town for future building. Without consulting anyone, they buy the land and mortgage the present building to finance it. Turns out nobody else in the congregation likes the idea at all.” How do the members respond to this?

Comment on Elders: Questions by Price

Price — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 14:05:27 +0000

Laymond….I guess I was just looking at how difficult it has been for groups to agree and get along…all the way back from the beginning… the disciples argued about who was the greatest… Paul and Peter got into a heated exchange in public…. Paul and Barnabas agreed to disagree about John Mark… It seems that as far as interpersonal relationships go, it’s NEVER been easy… That’s why I suggested that perhaps there is something to be learned in the often trying process of working together. But, perhaps you are correct…that as we learn more about how to do that and set the example for others to follow it will be easier to do..I’m sure there are many who wish that day would hurry up and get here !!

Comment on Elders: On the Authority of Elders, Part 5 (Bad Elders) by Todd Collier

Todd Collier — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 13:49:17 +0000

Dwayne, just curious, what is a “bad” decision?
By “bad” do we mean morally wrong?”
By “bad” do we mean “misguided” – wrong facts, or lack of understanding in the process?
By “bad” do we mean “That just didn’t work the way we thought it would, even cost us members?”
Or, by “bad” do we mean that they made a decision that I am personally uncomfortable with or which I believe may have been unscriptural?

There are great differences in how you deal with each possibility that range from “run away” to “hit your knees and pray for your shepherds.”

Comment on Elders: Questions by laymond

laymond — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 13:26:26 +0000

I know I have already gotten into enough trouble here for suggesting we should follow what Jesus said, but I am just a glutton for punishment.

Early on in this discussion Price said;
My “guess” is that the Holy Spirit didn’t intend for the function of the church to be “easy.”
Why guess about it Price when Jesus himself said it was easy?

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke [is] easy, and my burden is light.

I believe we just make it harder than it has to be.maybe some (elders) get an ego boost from telling people what the bible does not say.