Comments for One In Jesus

Comment on The Preacher Search: Lessons for Churches Searching for Preachers, Part 4 by Jim

Jim — Tue, 21 May 2013 15:30:30 +0000

I was not even talking about building a new facility. I was talking about the already existing facility. Previous generations loved to donate to a capital campaign and were willing to give money for new facilities. I am thinking about the next generation who will be taking over (managing and donating) and will have to deal with a high fixed cost structure.

Comment on The Preacher Search: Lessons for Churches Searching for Preachers, Part 4 by Gary

Gary — Tue, 21 May 2013 15:22:39 +0000

Jim, the building of new and expensive church buildings is fraught with danger for both the church and minister. Building programs have effectively ended many a ministry and prompted a move to a new church. “If you build it they will come” has been disproven time and again. Sometimes the new mortgage payments pretty much kill the spirit of a church by elevating the necessity of paying the mortgage above all else. On the other hand, some congregations are genuinely prevented from moving forward by an inadequate facility. It seems to be a roll of the dice for every church trying to decide whether to build bigger or stay put.

Comment on The Preacher Search: Lessons for Churches Searching for Preachers, Part 4 by Gary

Gary — Tue, 21 May 2013 15:11:53 +0000

I’ve heard Paul Coffman, a retired Church of Christ minister now in Oklahoma, tell how when he was the minister in York, Pennsylvania, the entire search committee of another congregation came to York to hear him preach. They arrived late, however, and had to walk to the front where the only available seats were. The entire congregation knew that they were a search committee coming to try to get their preacher! Not very subtle! He accepted the call to the University Park Church of Christ just outside Washington, D.C. and had an outstanding ministry there for a generation.

Comment on The Preacher Search: Lessons for Churches Searching for Preachers, Part 4 by Laymond

Laymond — Tue, 21 May 2013 13:48:52 +0000

Charles, I don’t know how you became so proficient at reading my mind, in such a short time.
Oh, I almost forgot the powers you possess.

Comment on The Preacher Search: Lessons for Churches Searching for Preachers, Part 4 by Jim

Jim — Tue, 21 May 2013 13:46:20 +0000

There has recently been some serious thought given to the sustainability of some of these large facilities with a high fixed cost structure. As the economy in the US gets tougher, you may start seeing some strange new sights, like 2 or 3 churches sharing a building. Your statement about “vote with their checkbooks” is correct. Also, it sometimes takes a lot of new members to replace what the elderly Mrs. Y gave every year. Some congregations have started figuring out other ways to obtain revenue from investments from renting out part of the facility to renting parking spaces to installing coffee houses. The Methodists could always pick up some money renting their sanctuary to cofC members for weddings since they already had the organ in place and no ban on instrumental music.

Comment on The Preacher Search: Lessons for Churches Searching for Preachers, Part 4 by Laymond

Laymond — Tue, 21 May 2013 13:44:21 +0000

Yes , I know of the past scrapes and cuts the Church has endured and still they remained one in their belief in God and his son Jesus, and even who they were. They knew and acknowledged right from wrong. Most of the squabbles were over such nonsense as instruments in worship, kitchen in the church bldg, donating to certain schools, appropriate clothing , when and how to take communion, yes even what songs to sing. But they were never as separated as they are today, when one congregation feels they have to hide their actions from another in order to gain advantage in hiring, that is about as divided as it gets. stealing from your brothers. I just don’t see how one can condone that action, then complain if a church picks off a few of their members.

Comment on The Preacher Search: Lessons for Churches Searching for Preachers, Part 4 by Charles McLean

Charles McLean — Tue, 21 May 2013 13:23:52 +0000

I must confess that the more I read about preachers– and I think Jay has done a great job explaining the dynamics of the job– the more I realize that the job is part cruise director and part headliner for the Sunday morning show. Any smart board knows what the “essential” duties of a job are, and what they also hope to get as part of the package. And without question, the essential duty of a preacher is to get people to come back for next Sunday’s show. We make every effort to hire a religious “Dr. Oz”, and we hope we are not getting an irascible “Chef Ramsey”.

This dynamic fosters the shallow nature of spirituality and relationship we see in the local group by setting up a religious infotainer as a spiritual leader. Elders won’t try very hard to break this superficial cycle of “listen up, pay up, and see you next week” because their mission, at core, is to give the customer what he wants so he won’t leave. In a diverse religious marketplace, this is the usual way you retain market share. We may use the word “rule” to describe what elders do, but the direction of the average local religion club is still largely determined by people who vote with their checkbooks… or their feet.

Comment on The Preacher Search: Lessons for Churches Searching for Preachers, Part 4 by Laymond

Laymond — Tue, 21 May 2013 13:12:52 +0000

“Yep, in the Churches of Christ, elders and fellow ministers routinely bear false witness to help a beloved friend or former member get a job.” (I really don’t believe this is routine, but anyway)

None of this preacher search itinerary, has bolstered my confidence in the “New Age, CoC”.
The bible said the father of the liar, is Satan/devil. Paul said a lie for good is still a lie, and God forbid we should do so. When elders of a congregation knowingly participate in such deception , as accepting lies as recommendations, secret negotiations to hide the truth, in my opinion, and I believe in the judgment of God is the same as a baldfaced lie. If hiding the truth from a congregation that hired him as trustworthy and honest, is not being lied to, I don’t know what a lie is.
What is to keep that same liar, from lying to his new congregation six months from now, with the help of another elder-ship trying to steal him away again.
I have never seen the “church of Christ” in such shambles , yes we have “progressive CoC’s ” in Texas, I have never attended one and don’t plan to anytime soon. I don’t believe a church will be judged on whether they are the biggest, or richest, well, they might well be but not in a favorable way, the grace of God extends only so far.
Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Comment on Thought Question: Single Ministers by Jim

Jim — Tue, 21 May 2013 12:06:00 +0000

Dan wrote: “A man should marry, have time to raise a family in the Lord and after he has some experience at life enter the ministry as an evangelist, with the blessing of his home congregation. ”

How is he supposed to make a living in the interim? Ask the Episcopalians how well this idea worked. If you don’t know one, just Google it and read the essays/blogs. For a time, they only wanted seminary students who had been in other professions for a period of time before they could enter seminary. Hint: It did not work out too well.

Comment on The Preacher Search: Lessons for Churches Searching for Preachers, Part 4 by Jim

Jim — Tue, 21 May 2013 11:43:00 +0000

If the candidate tells you that he/she is conducting a quiet search, please respect that. For those not accustomed to this, it can mean that if word gets out that the person is even considering leaving, he/she could be fired immediately. This can ruin a good human being for life.

Jay wrote: “Therefore, you’ll want to talk to people not on the reference list. You have to be careful not to embarrass him with his home church, but be as careful and thorough as possible without violating a confidence.”

If you choose to do this, make sure whomever you talk to can keep quiet. Gossip can spread through a cofC faster than fire through a cotton mill.