Comments for One In Jesus

Comment on Galatians: A Summer Series by Jay Guin

Jay Guin — Fri, 25 May 2012 00:26:48 +0000

Thanks for the encouragement, Jerry. I’ll probably drop the passwords in a bit, once I feel like I have a clue as to how to write this kind of material.

Comment on Faith that Works: On the Meaning of “Does Not Work” by Ray Downen

Ray Downen — Thu, 24 May 2012 23:41:23 +0000

Jay urges that we should read Romans with no cross-referencing to earlier or later revelation, and then we should believe Paul taught salvation by faith alone(?). But Romans 3 makes very clear that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. And Romans 6 makes clear that conversion is through dying to sin and being raised up into new life. Paul does not teach salvation by faith alone. In emphasizing the necessity of faith in Jesus, Paul never once suggests that we are saved by faith alone. Why would any of us then imagine for even a minute that salvation is by faith alone? Or why would we suppose Paul must be redefining faith to include obedience? Neither is true. We need not go to James to learn that obeying the gospel is essential for salvation. Jesus made that clear long before Romans was written, and Paul would not for an instant disagree with Jesus. So we shouldn’t read any verse in Romans or any New Covenant writing as if it taught salvation by faith alone. Faith is basic. It’s essential. That’s what the inspired writers say. Not once does the Word say sinners are saved by faith alone. Yet a multitude of preachers make that claim.

Comment on Faith that Works: On the Meaning of “Does Not Work” by Ray Downen

Ray Downen — Thu, 24 May 2012 23:25:45 +0000

It is suggested: But, of course, this leaves open the very difficult question: If we’re forgiven and saved by faith in Jesus, not works, why bother to do works? And it’s a fair question, because it’s a question that Paul had to frequently respond to. This is the problem of limiting faith to mental assent – even if we try to not do so. Such a question only can arise from this wrong concept. If faith without works is dead faith, we cannot separate the works from the faith. Works are the heartbeat of faith.
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How difficult it is to not separate faith from works when the very verse which links them separates them. And then a brother thinks that surely faith includes works. It does not. Works based on faith are faithful works, but they are not faith. Faith CAN exist without producing faithful works. Works are NOT a part of faith. True faith should cause the person to work based on the faith. But some believe, as in the case of demons, whose works are totally opposed to what they know is true. And anyone is dead wrong who supposes he/she has been saved by faith alone. Peter calls for action to prove faith. Paul makes clear that only those who obey the gospel are saved by the gospel. Faith is the desired goal of gospel preaching. But not all do believe. And it seems to be the case that not all who believe act in ways dictated by Christian faith. Sinners are not saved by faith alone. It has always been true that those who believe in Jesus save themselves by obeying the gospel. Acts 2:38 tells the story whether some like what the Lord says through Peter or do not like it. Only believers who repent and are baptized as Jesus commissions receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Comment on Faith that Works: Meandering from Romans 6 to the Spirit by Skip

Skip — Thu, 24 May 2012 23:12:44 +0000

If a person does not back their faith with works then they actually don’t have faith. Faith by definition leads to works. Just as in Hebrews 11, each new thought begins with “By faith …” followed by action on someones part. I have always believed that way but I still know that my works don’t save me only the blood of Christ.

Comment on Faith that Works: On the Meaning of “Does Not Work” by Ray Downen

Ray Downen — Thu, 24 May 2012 23:11:12 +0000

Surely I typed “by” where in the note recently sent it reads “be being baptized.”

Comment on Faith that Works: On the Meaning of “Does Not Work” by Ray Downen

Ray Downen — Thu, 24 May 2012 23:08:41 +0000

Living for Christ is distinctly different than becoming a Christian. We do well to keep that in mind. Acts 2:38 is key to conversion because that’s what it’s about. It has little to do with remaining IN Christ. So of course I do not call for Bible lovers to refer to Acts 2:38 in discussing living for Christ. And accepting baptism is not in any sense a work done by the one who is baptized. So anyone who thinks of baptism as a work is misunderstanding either baptism or work. But only those will be saved who obey the gospel if Paul was inspired. And Peter makes clear to any Bible student who reads Acts that obeying the gospel is done by turning to Jesus and away from sin and be being baptized. It logically follows that only those who repent and are baptized have obeyed the gospel and have received the gift of the Holy Spirit. Anyone can babble. Babbling is not a sign of having received God’s Spirit. Living as Jesus lived and loved IS a sign of having received God’s Spirit if the person has been baptized as Jesus commanded was to be done. Living well CAN be done by godless people, so just living well is no proof of acceptance by God.

Comment on Faith that Works: Paul’s Defense in Romans 3 by Norton

Norton — Thu, 24 May 2012 22:51:54 +0000

Price
Abraham did act in obedience before he came to fully trust God’s promises, as Jerry explains. My point was that many people in the CofC have a very hard time believing Paul when he said that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness, but not his works. They want to find some works of obedience that may have saved Abraham that Paul didn’t mention.

Comment on Faith that Works: Meandering from Romans 6 to the Spirit by laymond

laymond — Thu, 24 May 2012 22:38:47 +0000

Skip, do you mean to say if a person does not back their faith with works, they are not a true believer. sounds familiar.

Comment on Faith that Works: Meandering from Romans 6 to the Spirit by Skip

Skip — Thu, 24 May 2012 21:38:37 +0000

In my lexicon a believer is someone who believes and backs it up with their life. I assume everyone in this audience shares the same conviction. If someone doesn’t have the Holy Spirit then they aren’t Biblically a believer.

Comment on Faith that Works: Meandering from Romans 6 to the Spirit by Skip

Skip — Thu, 24 May 2012 21:25:49 +0000

Every true believer has the indwelling Holy Spirit. This is clear NT teaching. Paul says that we can quench that spirit. We can also lose it if we leave the Lord. Laymond, perhaps you know when the point of leaving the Lord occurs. I can’t make that call.