Another Email Re Concerning God’s Will

20 Responses to Another Email Re Concerning God’s Will

1. Ray says:

   November 20, 2010 at 9:32 am

   Jay,

   I can understand. This is one of your posts that I did not read, but if the response posts were of such poor condition and quality that it required an entire removal, then things must have been pretty distasteful.

   This is one of my reasons why my website does not have the ability for the reader make posts.
2. Anonymous says:

   November 20, 2010 at 10:32 am

   Jay is correct. If my comments are included among those that were abrasive or offensive in any way, I apologize to the writer of the email.

   May our God guide you in your decision.
3. Tom Forrester says:

   November 20, 2010 at 4:52 pm

   Eph 4:29-32 Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32 Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
4. Tom Forrester says:

   November 20, 2010 at 11:52 am

   Eph 4:29-32 Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32 Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
5. RichardPulshamir says:

   November 20, 2010 at 3:06 pm

   "I’ve deleted this post because too many of the reader’s comments did not reflect the spirit of Christ."

   I think you are precisely wrong on this. The readers comments were straight to the point of what the real problem was, such as I imagine Jesus would have been. He didn't hold back telling the Pharisees that their prayers were a pretense when he said they devour widows houses and for a pretense make long prayers. I think the readers who commenting were simply saying the same thing: your claims that God spoke to you are a pretense for your obsession. The wisdom from above may be first pure, then peaceable, etc. but it certainly does not countenance false claims of having heard God's voice. If there is anything the reader who asked the question needed to hear, it was that God did NOT speak to him. He didn't need that vain and pagan notion coddled and agged on.
6. Keith says:

   November 20, 2010 at 3:12 pm

   That's too bad, Jay. There was an opportunity to help someone who sounded like he desperately needed help, and we failed him by being unloving. I apologize for any part I may have played in that failure. ~ Keith Brenton
7. Rich says:

   November 20, 2010 at 4:46 pm

   Oi. The guilt trip is so annoying. Jay, before you deleted it all you said something about how you never want to question someone who claims to have heard God's voice. Well, what if that voice told them to stalk their ex-wife? or to kill their children? Here I think we were dealing with the first case and the solution is not your Pentecostal tendency to believe that God lays things in your heart and to encourage others to follow this sort of psychosis. Rather to encourage those who believe that God is speaking to them to get professional help from a psychologist may be the right answer.

   "There was an opportunity to help someone who sounded like he desperately needed help, and we failed him by being unloving."

   Jay failed him by being a pansy pantheist new ager open to any form of "revelation" that a person might claim has been made to them. Shame on your Jay! You're a failure.
8. Rich says:

   November 20, 2010 at 4:50 pm

   Jay, This is just like the time that you "counselled" a woman who was molested by her father to seek reconcilliation and layed a guilt trip on her as if she would go to hell unless she associated with her father like nothing had ever happened. That was gross and despicable. Forgiving in order to let the load off your soul is one thing. But putting yourself in an emotionally difficult situation just because some self-appointed prophet (this is what you seem to be more and more) told you that you had to, that's just psychologically damaging. And here, encouraging this man to stalk his wife, well its not as bad as what you told this other woman, but its in the same direction.
9. Anonymous says:

   November 20, 2010 at 4:53 pm

   Richard,

   God is not dead. Why would we imagine that it's impossible for him to continue to speak?

   While I've argued that the scriptures are a sufficient and complete revelation, that doesn't mean that God is silent. God is entirely capable of communicating in ways other than revealing new doctrinal truths.

   That doesn't mean all claimed words from God are truly his words, but it does mean we can't simply begin with the ad hoc assumption that all such claims are false. The command is to "Test the spirits" (1 John 4:1) not to "Deny that there are spirits."

   Am I skeptical of such claims? Yes. Do I consider all such claims to be lies? Of course, not. Who am I to limit the ability of God to speak to his children?!

   Indeed, I wonder whether it's more "pagan" to deny that God speaks than it is to claim that he speaks.

   We've covered 1 Cor 13 here several times. I've not found the passage yet that denies God's ability to communicate with his children, and there are many that promise he will be with us.
10. Anonymous says:

    November 20, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    First and final warning. Similar comments will lead to being blacklisted.
11. Larry says:

    November 20, 2010 at 11:58 pm

    From a non-Christian perspective, even allowing the possibility that this sort of foolishness such as the reader mentioned in the now deleted post was from God makes Christianity much less believable. If Christians cannot even see through that kind of bunk, why should I buy into your views?
12. Larry says:

    November 21, 2010 at 12:02 am

    And if God were to still communicate today, why would he say something totally useless like "its not over" to someone about their marriage that clearly is over? Why not use his communication abilities to raise up a new Paul, or another 12 apostles, to finally unite Christians with a real prophetic message? Why will he let his church go to hell in a handbasket and be fragmented into a million deluded denominations? why will he forgo speaking on the important stuff, and then lend his "still small voice" to a meaningless trifle? If God were to communicate, he would do it on a world scale and in matters of religion, not on one guy's relationship status. And this is precisely the beef that non-Christians have with Christianity. You say God is still speaking today, still working. But if it was the case, you would not be divided into so many factions. There would be unity because he would send a man, a prophet, a miracle worker, to straighten out all the divisions. But he doesn't, because God doesn't speak to people and never has. All notions of oral revelation are nonsense. God has only spoken once, when he put the knowledge of right and wrong into man's constitution at the beginning.
13. Laymond says:

    November 21, 2010 at 10:11 am

    Jay, I guess I started the whole "get a grip" thingy, I do believe it is said somewhere that "lukewarm" does not get the job done. I believe a good splash of "cold water" sometimes brings us back to reality, if that does not work, what will it take, it was evident time was not doing the job. can we tell one person that if they continue to pray that God will act against what is evidently, against another person"s will, for the gradification of the one praying. I was just saying accept reality, and go on with your life. If we tell a person in this situation, continue on the road you are going down, and God will reward you with what you want. Then God does not step in and change the mind of his object of affection, it won't be long until this person will lose all trust in God. Just my opinion.
14. Laymond says:

    November 21, 2010 at 11:15 am

    "God is not dead. Why would we imagine that it's impossible for him to continue to speak?"

    Not impossible, but highly improbable.

    Hbr 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, ———-.

    Do you remember any place in scripture where God whispered, when he spoke.? I believe God influences/ "speaks" through our conscience.
15. Anonymous says:

    November 21, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    Larry,

    You comments and email address violate the policy just announced at /2010/11/new-moderation-pol…. I'm glad for your questions to be discussed, but I need you to assure the readership that you will comply with the new standards going forward.

    I have no problem with you expressing the view that God no longer communicates with his people. There are many in the Churches of Christ who would agree. But it's not helpful or appropriate to classify a viewpoint as "bunk" or "foolishness" or "nonsense" simply because you disagree. Such language does not facilitate discussion or the search for truth.

    And I need your real email address to used when you post.
16. Anonymous says:

    November 21, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    Laymond,

    (Heb 1:1-2 ESV) Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

    The writer is speaking of the OT prophets in v 1 (who spoke to our "fathers") and Jesus in v 2. If "spoke" in v. 1 implies the end of God's communication with his people, then he stopped when Jesus ascended — and how did Hebrews get inspired?

    The point he is making is that the prophets spoke first and then Jesus spoke, and the rest of Hebrews includes a series of commentaries (or midrashes) on OT prophesies, explaining how Jesus fulfills the promises made through the prophets.

    But he is certainly not saying that the age of prophecy is over, as he is in the process of writing an inspired book — and likely not the last book of the NT.

    And, yes, God is fully capable of speaking in a whisper —

    (1Ki 19:12-13 ESV) 12 And after the earthquake a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire the sound of a low whisper. 13 And when Elijah heard it, he wrapped his face in his cloak and went out and stood at the entrance of the cave. And behold, there came a voice to him and said, "What are you doing here, Elijah?"

    However — if you believe God can speak to his people through their consciences, I don't see that we greatly disagree. There are those who deny any direct operation of the Spirit at all. That perspective strikes me as very nearly Deistic.

    But whether God speaks through our consciences, subtle promptings, or verbally is of little difference to me — so long as we agree that he actually can answer our prayers to "guide, guard and direct" us.
17. Laymond says:

    November 21, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    (1Ki 19:12-13 ESV) 12 And after the earthquake a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire the sound of a low whisper

    Jay, I believe my version of the bible would be better interpreted, as a "calm voice' if you read the previous verse, there was havock being reaked, and the Lord stayed calm. my version don't describe "A whisper"
18. Jay Guin says:

    November 21, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    Here are several translations —

    ASV 1 Kings 19:12 and after the earthquake a fire; but Jehovah was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

    CJB 1 Kings 19:12 After the earthquake, fire broke out; but ADONAI was not in the fire. And after the fire came a quiet, subdued voice.

    CSB 1 Kings 19:12 After the earthquake there was a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire there was a voice, a soft whisper.

    DBY 1 Kings 19:12 And after the earthquake, a fire: Jehovah was not in the fire. And after the fire, a soft gentle voice.

    DRA 1 Kings 19:12 And after the earthquake a fire: the Lord is not in the fire, and after the fire a whistling of a gentle air.

    ERV 1 Kings 19:12 and after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

    ESV 1 Kings 19:12 And after the earthquake a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire the sound of a low whisper.

    GNV 1 Kings 19:12 And after the earthquake came fire: but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire came a still and soft voyce.

    GWN 1 Kings 19:12 After the earthquake there was a fire. But the LORD wasn't in the fire. And after the fire there was a quiet, whispering voice.

    JPS 1 Kings 19:12 and after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire; and after the fire a still small voice.

    KJG 1 Kings 19:12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

    KJV 1 Kings 19:12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

    LXA 1 Kings 19:12 and after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire the voice of a gentle breeze.

    LXE 1 Kings 19:12 and after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire the voice of a gentle breeze.

    NET 1 Kings 19:12 After the earthquake, there was a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. After the fire, there was a soft whisper.

    NIB 1 Kings 19:12 After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper.

    NIRV 1 Kings 19:12 After the earthquake a fire came. But the LORD wasn't in the fire. And after the fire there was only a gentle whisper.

    NIV 1 Kings 19:12 After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper.

    NJB 1 Kings 19:12 And after the earthquake, fire. But Yahweh was not in the fire. And after the fire, a light murmuring sound.

    NKJ 1 Kings 19:12 and after the earthquake a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire; and after the fire a still small voice.

    NLT 1 Kings 19:12 And after the earthquake there was a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire there was the sound of a gentle whisper.

    NRS 1 Kings 19:12 and after the earthquake a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire; and after the fire a sound of sheer silence.

    RSV 1 Kings 19:12 and after the earthquake a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire; and after the fire a still small voice.

    RWB 1 Kings 19:12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

    TNIV 1 Kings 19:12 After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper.

    TNK 1 Kings 19:12 After the earthquake — fire; but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire — a soft murmuring sound.

    WEB 1 Kings 19:12 And after the earthquake a fire; {but} the LORD {was} not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

    YLT 1 Kings 19:12 and after the shaking a fire: — not in the fire is Jehovah; and after the fire a voice still small;

    Although not unanimous, the consensus is a whisper. I'm no Hebrew scholar, but the Hebrew is clearly a reference to a small quiet voice. The NET Bible footnotes the literal words:

    Heb “a voice, calm, soft.”

    Rose Marie says:

    November 21, 2010 at 8:25 pm

    I wonder how many believers would say that they have heard a word from God. I know that many of us have. We don't tell the world for two reasons.
    1st. It is a private word – not a prophecy to be spread around the world. So we keep it quiet………not wanting to make a spectacle of the faith.
    2nd. People who deride the one who hears and then tells makes a climate in which such a revealing is painful.

    So I tell it here. I have heard a word from God. It was small and related only to a sincere prayer that I prayed over many months. I heard His answer and ceased that prayer. Let the taunting begin.
    Rose Marie

    So I will tell the
19. Jay Guin says:

    November 21, 2010 at 10:39 pm

    Rose Marie,

    Thanks for what you've said. I've found that if you give a class a secure, safe space for discussion, many will have stories of God's help in times of need.

    Coach Gene Stallings, former head coach of Alabama, has told in print and to me personally of being visited by an angel — and many others have had similar experiences.

    We would have far more faith in these things if we felt comfortable sharing what we've received. Sadly, there are those who ridicule the notion that God still works actively within his church.

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