We who grew up in the 20th Century Churches of Christ were taught that the Spirit is not received at baptism. The “gift of the Holy Spirit” is salvation. Or maybe it’s the “ordinary” indwelling — which doesn’t do all that much. Indeed, the point was hammered into me with such force that I at one time thought we received the Holy Spirit when we went to the bookstore and bought a New Testament!
Therefore, I shouldn’t be surprised that we often struggle to understand that very nearly everything that happens at baptism — other than the cleansing of the filth from the flesh — happens by the action of the Holy Spirit. It’s at God’s direction and by the power of Jesus’ sacrifice. But it’s by the Spirit.
Consider —
Receipt of the Spirit means we belong to God.
(Rom 8:9 ESV) 9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
We are given life when the Spirit indwells us.
(Rom 8:10-11 ESV) 10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.
The Spirit is the means by which God adopts us as his children.
(Rom 8:15 ESV) 15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”
The Spirit sanctifies us (makes us holy).
(Rom 15:15-16 ESV) 15 But on some points I have written to you very boldly by way of reminder, because of the grace given me by God 16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
The Spirit washes, justifies, and sanctifies —
(1Co 6:11 ESV) And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
The Spirit empowers us to say “Jesus is Lord.”
(1Co 12:3 ESV) 3 Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit.
The Spirit unites us.
(1Co 12:13 ESV) 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body–Jews or Greeks, slaves or free–and all were made to drink of one Spirit.
(Eph 4:3 ESV) 3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace
The Spirit gives life —
(John 6:63 ESV) 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
(2Co 3:5-6 ESV) Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
(Gal 5:25 ESV) 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
The Spirit gives hope —
(Gal 5:5 ESV) 5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.
The Spirit frees us from law —
(Gal 5:18 ESV) 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
The Spirit guarantees our inheritance —
(Eph 1:13-14 ESV) 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
The Spirit gives us access to God —
(Eph 2:18 ESV) 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.
The Spirit saves and sanctifies —
(2Th 2:13 ESV) 13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
(1Pe 1:2 ESV) 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
God saves and justifies by the Spirit —
(Tit 3:4-7 ESV) 4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
The Spirit causes us to confess Jesus —
(1Jo 4:2-3 ESV) 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.
We abide in Christ and he in us by the Spirit —
(1Jo 4:13 ESV) 13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.
This is, of course, why John the Baptist was so careful to distinguish his baptism (“of repentance into forgiveness of sins”) from the baptism of the Messiah (“with the Spirit”). The baptism Peter offers in Acts 2:38 would be little different from John’s but for the promise of the “gift of the Holy Spirit.” Both the baptism of John and the baptism of Pentecost were “into the forgiveness of sins.” But Peter made a point to explain the difference clearly —
(Act 2:17a ESV) 17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh …”
(Act 2:33 ESV) 33 “Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.”
(Act 2:38-39 ESV) 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”
Acts 2:38-39 is an allusion to —
(Isa 44:3 ESV) 3 For I will pour water on the thirsty land, and streams on the dry ground; I will pour my Spirit upon your offspring, and my blessing on your descendants.
The “promise” in 2:29 refers to the “promise” is 2:33 — the “promise of the Holy Spirit.” The reason salvation will come not only to those saved at Pentecost but also for generations to come is that the Spirit will be poured out on generations to come.
Therefore, when Cornelius received the Spirit, as an outpouring, before baptism, Cornelius was saved before baptism.
(Act 10:44-45 ESV) 44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles.
If you’ve read Acts 2 or Isaiah, then you know that the Jews were referring to the Spirit’s outpouring in terms of prophesy and Pentecost. This was no mere gifting with tongues. This was the fulfillment of prophecy to pour the Spirit out on the nations — “all flesh.” And the outpouring of the Spirit meant that Cornelius was just as saved as Peter. Indeed: read Peter’s sermon and it’s about Jesus and about the outpouring of the Spirit. It’s not about baptism — which isn’t mentioned but once.
Now, I argued that in that instance — in the extraordinary case of Cornelius — baptism did not save, but baptism did incorporate Cornelius into the saved community by the community’s acceptance of the Gentiles as brothers. Indeed, this is why the apostles and others had to gather and decide whether Peter had correctly decided to baptize them. The decision to baptize was incredibly important.
But that doesn’t make this account normative. It teaches that baptism in the Spirit and baptism in water do not have to happen at the same time. It doesn’t teach that they never happen at the same time. If the inconsistency bothers you, then you need to get over it, because Acts is filled with such inconsistencies.
God is not a rulebook. Indeed, if God wanted to follow the rules — his rules — we’d all be damned and would richly deserve it. That doesn’t mean we don’t know how to offer salvation to a convert. We do. They confess their faith in Jesus. We baptize them into the name of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit.
But it does mean we can’t be so very certain that God won’t save those who don’t follow our interpretation of the formula. God keeps his promises. All of them. But God often does more than he promises. And one promise he makes is to save all with faith.
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Wondered when you'd get here in this series!
About time. Now I can just link to your post, since I couldn't have written it as powerfully and succinctly!
Jay,
I am surprised that only 1 other person has posted. I would state some matters differenly, but overall, good points were made. 😉
Jay,
What do you mean with ", the point was hammered into me with such force that I at one time thought we received the Holy Spirit when we went to the bookstore and bought a New Testament! ?
I think what Jay is referring to is the doctrine that the Holy Spirit is solely received by Christians through the written scriptures. The Holy Spirit, the argument goes, inspired the New Testament writers and gave them the words which have been passed down to us. We "receive" the Spirit when we read the Bible and take those inspired words in.
Thanks Ben, for trying to talk for Jay, But I would like if he can speak by himself clarifying his sentence. My point is: Why he thought we received the Holy Spirit when he went to the bookstore and bought a New Testament? Did he belive that the recived the gift of the Holy Spirit before Baptism or after ? Did he read an Old bible that says: Go and get a new Testament? Did he took literally the written word? This questions are for Jay. The churches of Christ are not in disagreement about the dwelling of the Holy Spirit is a fact.
Well, then: what do you think Jay is writing, whether you agree or disagree, and why?
And these questions are for you.
Guestfortruth,
Respectfully, I wasn't trying to put words in Jay's mouth; I was just sharing a doctrine I've heard many times after growing up in the Church of Christ. I would be happy for Jay to clarify if I misread his post.
God is not a rulebook. Indeed, if God wanted to follow the rules — his rules — we’d all be damned and would richly deserve it
do you have any other blogs on this idea of looking at Gods word as a rulebook. I have just begun digging into this and am convinced i have had it wrong for a long time.
Guestfortruth,
In the more conservative elements of the Churches of Christ, there are two commonly taught views of the Holy Spirit.
1. The Spirit indwells only representatively, that is, through the word. The Spirit inspired the word, and the Spirit's influence occurs exclusively through the word. This is sometimes referred to as the "word only" view.
2. The Spirit indwells personally, but since the First Century, the Spirit's indwelling is a mere "ordinary" indwelling. Those verses that speak of the Spirit's work in intercession, in salvation, and in sealing the Christian apply today, but those that might refer to some "miraculous" manifestation no longer apply.
Thus, both views limit most verses regarding the Spirit to the First Century. Hence, under either view, the "fruit of the Spirit" only involves the Spirit through the word. There is no "direct operation" of the Spirit on the Christian's heart that changes him. He changes by reading and apply the word. Thus, both views lead to a very humanistic understanding of the scriptures. The Helper helps, but he helps by giving us a book.
Those who grew up immersed in these perspectives would well understand the wry notion that we receive the Spirit by buying a New Testament, because the Spirit was said to work only through the word.
Sorry to have been obscure.
Slewis1967,
Yes — tons. Check out the link on the left side of the page called "Index." Click and follow the options. The lines with a + symbol will expand when clicked on.
You might check out the series called Amazing Grace. /index-under-construction/t…
It covers a lot of ground and would be as good a place as any to start.
Bob,
Jay said : “The “promise” in 2:29 refers to the “promise” is 2:33 — the “promise of the Holy Spirit.” I don’t know if is a mistype Acts 2:39 and about “Isaiah 2:23” my bible does not have that versus “23” Just until 22. Well, if you read the whole context of Isaiah 44:1-3 is talking about the promise given to Father Abraham in Genesis 18:10 the Isaiah spoke by the Holy Spirit things from the future about the House of Jacob (Jews) The passage that are mention in Acts 2 by the apostle peter was (Joel 2:28) ““ And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. The apostle peter made reference to this passage of the Old Testament . The prophet Isaiah is know as the messianic prophet and Joel also prophet. They remind the people of Israel about the promise made to Father Abraham (Genesis 18:10, 14,Gen. 18:18,Gen. 22:18, Gen. 26:4,Psalms 72:17). The apostles Clarify the teaching about the promise read Romans 9:9 “For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.” Galatians 3:8 “And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. Romans 15:8
Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers, (John 4:21-23) Luke 24:46-48 “ Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise[a] from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things.” This promise was giving to Father Abraham and was carried by the prophets until was accomplished in Acts 2:39 “ For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” It has been a misunderstanding about this “promise” because previous to this passage is mention the “Gift of the Holy Spirit” V.38, The question is : Was the gift of the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit himself? The Gift is something that is free.We read in Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. According to this passage the “Gift “ is eternal Life. What confuse some brethren is that the powerful message of the Gospel was preach in the pentecost with the Manifestation of the Holy Spirit in Acts chapter 2, the apostle Paul clarify this later in Ephesians 1:13 “In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,” (2 Corinthians 1:22) “The seal of the Holy Spirit” what is that seal? Is the receipt or prove that when you were baptize into Christ you belong to Christ. Then is when you receive certainty of been born again, 1 Peter 1:23 “ having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, the “word of God abides forever” This is the sword of the Spirit (Ephesians 6:17) And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; The Holy Spirit work together with the word, Jesus said the Holy Spirit, “when he is come, will convict the world in respect of sin (John16:8 ASV). But how does the Spirit convic of sin?…by the law is the knowledge of Sin (Rom. 3:20; cf. Romans 7:7). The Holy Spirit as a person, uses law as an instrument to convict of sin. The medium through which the Holy Spirit accomplish his mission is the word of God. There is not other way to convict of sin.
One should keep in mind the distinction between the Spirit and the words of the spirit; the Spirit is a person; the word is an instrument. People are not converted by the Word only nor by the Spirit only, but by the Spirit acting through the Word. The Word of God is the instrument employed by the Holy Spirit in dealing with the hearts of men.
The First time we hear about “the promise of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament” Is mentioned in Acts 1:3-5 told by Luke the inspired writer. There is background about this affirmation without saying the word “promise”, Let’s see the evidences This event was prophesied by Isaiah and Joel (Joel 2:28,Isaiah 44:3) carrying this event until the first Century repeated by John the baptizer ( Mark 1:8 says “. I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” At first Looks, Look like John the baptizer is giving the promise, but is he giving the promise? Absolutly, Not. he is giving testimony about Jesus and his ministry “He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit” also mentioned in the others gospels like In Matthew 3:11 “I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire” This was said by: John the Baptizer. Looks that John is talking about “the Baptism of the Holy Spirit” to understand this we need to study what was the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit ( Mattew 3:11 b; Mark 1:8b; Luke 3:16b; John 1:33b; Acts 1:5; Acts 11:16). This was a promised baptism that was fulfilled in the apostles (Acts 2 ) and to the household of Cornelius (Acts 10) At no time was anyone ever commanded to be baptized in the Holy Spirit nor is it ever said a Holy Spirit baptism would put one into Christ. When the apostles were baptized with the Holy Spirit, things Jesus taugh were brought to their remembrance (John 14:26), and they were guided into all truth (John 16:13). At the household of Cornelius Holy Spirit baptism was to convince the Jews present that God accepted the Gentiles to be fellow heirs in the family of God (Acts 11:14-18). Holy Spirit baptism was not designed to continue through the centuries.The purpose of the “baptism of the Holy Spirit also known as the “Power of the Holy Spirit” Accomplish his purpose read Mark 16:20, Hebrews 2:3-4. If you read the beginning of chapter 4 says about ” Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard”.
Jay said:” Therefore, when Cornelius received the Spirit, as an outpouring, before baptism, (Cornelius was saved before baptism).” Is true that somebody can be saved before be baptize scripturally? The water baptism commanded by Jesus and the Apostles (Mat. 28:19-20; ; Mark 16:16; John 3:5; Acts 2:38,41; Acts 8:12,13,16; Romans 6:3,4; 1 Cor. 1:13-17, 1 Cor.12:13; Galatians 3:27; Ephesians 4:4; Colossians 2:12; 1 peter 3:21).
This is the baptism administered by the disciples on and after the day of Pentecost to penitent belivers for the remission of their sins. It is a vital part of the new birth and is the one baptism of which Paul Speaks in Ephesians 4:5. It stand between the lost alien sinner and pardon. It is the only baptism that applies in the present century.
Jay said “And the outpouring of the Spirit meant that Cornelius was just as saved as Peter.” Indeed: read Peter’s sermon and it’s about Jesus and about the outpouring of the Spirit. It’s not about baptism — which isn’t mentioned but once. “— Is that once : Acts 2:38-39? About who is the Gospel of Christ? What was the commandment given to the Apostles according Mat. 28:19,20? All the Jews from every nation under heaven were attending to the Pentecost feast , we read in Acts 2:41 “Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them , Not all the Jews were baptized from under the heaven even they saw and they were present and heard the preaching of peter about Jesus the Messiah, they hardened their hearts. (Isaiah 6:8-10, John 12:39-41 ) That is why not all the Jews under the Nations received the Gospel of Christ first time preached by peter with the power of the Holy Spirit, It was written by the prophets! The Gospel opened the Door of the Kingdom of God to the Jews and later open that door to the Gentiles, The case of Cornelius as recorded in Acts 10 was another miraculous manifestation of the Holy Spirit, but does not mean they were save before baptism the evidence is what is told by the apostle peter in .
Acts 11:15-16 “Now the apostles and brethren who were in Judea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God” but just read Versus 15,16 Where Peter is retelling what happened at Cornelius household “15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
What was say before in the context of versus 15, Let’s read versus 14 says “who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.” What were those words? The Gospel for sure. (Rom. 1:16), The manifestation of the Holy Spirit was to open the door of the Kingdom to the Gentiles. Cornelius and his household were the first Gentiles in the Kingdom of God (the Church) They were added as like the about three thousand souls Jews from the Pentecost. The promise of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit also known as “The power of the Holy Spirit” because of his supernatural manifestation. There is not doubt that the Holy Spirit dwell in the Christian as the Father and the son dwell too.Since the Bible declares that Deity indwells- Deity indwells. Deity indwells all who desire and do completely the will of God. Six verses say the Father is in the Christian ( 1 Cor.6:16; Eph.4:6; 1Jn 3:24, 1 Jn4:4, 1Jn 4:12-13, 1Jn 4:15-16). Eleven verses say Christ is in the Christian (Jn. 6:56; Jn 15:4-5; Jn. 17:23,26; Rom 8:10; 2 Cor. 13:5; Gal. 2:20; Gal.4:19;Eph. 3:17;Col. 1:27; Col.3:11; 1 peter 3:15). Six verses say the Holy Spirit is in the Christian (Jn 14:17; Rom 8:9; 1 Cor. 3:16; 1 Cor. 6:19; 2 Tim. 1:14) Twenty-three passages reveal that the Deity indwells the Christian.But again it is asked. How?” “ In what manner does Deity dwell? The answer is: “The Father, son and the Holy Spirit indwell the Christian in the same manner – through the Word of God. (1 Peter 1:23)” We need to make a Distinction between “word only” and “through the word” . When we use “ Through” we are saying that there is a “medium” that is the way the Godhead works!
Bob,
Jay said : “The “promise” in 2:29 refers to the “promise” is 2:33 — the “promise of the Holy Spirit.” I don’t know if is a mistype Acts 2:39 and about “Isaiah 2:23” my bible does not have that versus “23” Just until 22. Well, if you read the whole context of Isaiah 44:1-3 is talking about the promise given to Father Abraham in Genesis 18:10 the Isaiah spoke by the Holy Spirit things from the future about the House of Jacob (Jews) The passage that are mention in Acts 2 by the apostle peter was (Joel 2:28) ““ And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. The apostle peter made reference to this passage of the Old Testament . The prophet Isaiah is know as the messianic prophet and Joel also prophet. They remind the people of Israel about the promise made to Father Abraham (Genesis 18:10, 14,Gen. 18:18,Gen. 22:18, Gen. 26:4,Psalms 72:17). The apostles Clarify the teaching about the promise read Romans 9:9 “For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.” Galatians 3:8 “And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. Romans 15:8
Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers, (John 4:21-23) Luke 24:46-48 “ Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise[a] from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things.” This promise was giving to Father Abraham and was carried by the prophets until was accomplished in Acts 2:39 “ For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” It has been a misunderstanding about this “promise” because previous to this passage is mention the “Gift of the Holy Spirit” V.38, The question is : Was the gift of the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit himself? The Gift is something that is free.We read in Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. According to this passage the “Gift “ is eternal Life. What confuse some brethren is that the powerful message of the Gospel was preach in the pentecost with the Manifestation of the Holy Spirit in Acts chapter 2, the apostle Paul clarify this later in Ephesians 1:13 “In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,” (2 Corinthians 1:22) “The seal of the Holy Spirit” what is that seal? Is the receipt or prove that when you were baptize into Christ you belong to Christ. Then is when you receive certainty of been born again, 1 Peter 1:23 “ having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, the “word of God abides forever” This is the sword of the Spirit (Ephesians 6:17) And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; The Holy Spirit work together with the word, Jesus said the Holy Spirit, “when he is come, will convict the world in respect of sin (John16:8 ASV). But how does the Spirit convic of sin?…by the law is the knowledge of Sin (Rom. 3:20; cf. Romans 7:7). The Holy Spirit as a person, uses law as an instrument to convict of sin. The medium through which the Holy Spirit accomplish his mission is the word of God. There is not other way to convict of sin.
One should keep in mind the distinction between the Spirit and the words of the spirit; the Spirit is a person; the word is an instrument. People are not converted by the Word only nor by the Spirit only, but by the Spirit acting through the Word. The Word of God is the instrument employed by the Holy Spirit in dealing with the hearts of men.
The First time we hear about “the promise of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament” Is mentioned in Acts 1:3-5 told by Luke the inspired writer. There is background about this affirmation without saying the word “promise”, Let’s see the evidences This event was prophesied by Isaiah and Joel (Joel 2:28,Isaiah 44:3) carrying this event until the first Century repeated by John the baptizer ( Mark 1:8 says “. I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” At first Looks, Look like John the baptizer is giving the promise, but is he giving the promise? Absolutly, Not. he is giving testimony about Jesus and his ministry “He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit” also mentioned in the others gospels like In Matthew 3:11 “I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire” This was said by: John the Baptizer. Looks that John is talking about “the Baptism of the Holy Spirit” to understand this we need to study what was the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit ( Mattew 3:11 b; Mark 1:8b; Luke 3:16b; John 1:33b; Acts 1:5; Acts 11:16). This was a promised baptism that was fulfilled in the apostles (Acts 2 ) and to the household of Cornelius (Acts 10) At no time was anyone ever commanded to be baptized in the Holy Spirit nor is it ever said a Holy Spirit baptism would put one into Christ. When the apostles were baptized with the Holy Spirit, things Jesus taugh were brought to their remembrance (John 14:26), and they were guided into all truth (John 16:13). At the household of Cornelius Holy Spirit baptism was to convince the Jews present that God accepted the Gentiles to be fellow heirs in the family of God (Acts 11:14-18). Holy Spirit baptism was not designed to continue through the centuries.The purpose of the “baptism of the Holy Spirit also known as the “Power of the Holy Spirit” Accomplish his purpose read Mark 16:20, Hebrews 2:3-4. If you read the beginning of chapter 4 says about ” Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard”.
Jay said:” Therefore, when Cornelius received the Spirit, as an outpouring, before baptism, (Cornelius was saved before baptism).” Is true that somebody can be saved before be baptize scripturally? The water baptism commanded by Jesus and the Apostles (Mat. 28:19-20; ; Mark 16:16; John 3:5; Acts 2:38,41; Acts 8:12,13,16; Romans 6:3,4; 1 Cor. 1:13-17, 1 Cor.12:13; Galatians 3:27; Ephesians 4:4; Colossians 2:12; 1 peter 3:21).
This is the baptism administered by the disciples on and after the day of Pentecost to penitent belivers for the remission of their sins. It is a vital part of the new birth and is the one baptism of which Paul Speaks in Ephesians 4:5. It stand between the lost alien sinner and pardon. It is the only baptism that applies in the present century.
Jay said “And the outpouring of the Spirit meant that Cornelius was just as saved as Peter.” Indeed: read Peter’s sermon and it’s about Jesus and about the outpouring of the Spirit. It’s not about baptism — which isn’t mentioned but once. “— Is that once : Acts 2:38-39? About who is the Gospel of Christ? What was the commandment given to the Apostles according Mat. 28:19,20? All the Jews from every nation under heaven were attending to the Pentecost feast , we read in Acts 2:41 “Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them , Not all the Jews were baptized from under the heaven even they saw and they were present and heard the preaching of peter about Jesus the Messiah, they hardened their hearts. (Isaiah 6:8-10, John 12:39-41 ) That is why not all the Jews under the Nations received the Gospel of Christ first time preached by peter with the power of the Holy Spirit, It was written by the prophets! The Gospel opened the Door of the Kingdom of God to the Jews and later open that door to the Gentiles, The case of Cornelius as recorded in Acts 10 was another miraculous manifestation of the Holy Spirit, but does not mean they were save before baptism the evidence is what is told by the apostle peter in .
Acts 11:15-16 “Now the apostles and brethren who were in Judea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God” but just read Versus 15,16 Where Peter is retelling what happened at Cornelius household “15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
What was say before in the context of versus 15, Let’s read versus 14 says “who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.” What were those words? The Gospel for sure. (Rom. 1:16), The manifestation of the Holy Spirit was to open the door of the Kingdom to the Gentiles. Cornelius and his household were the first Gentiles in the Kingdom of God (the Church) They were added as like the about three thousand souls Jews from the Pentecost. The promise of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit also known as “The power of the Holy Spirit” because of his supernatural manifestation. There is not doubt that the Holy Spirit dwell in the Christian as the Father and the son dwell too.Since the Bible declares that Deity indwells- Deity indwells. Deity indwells all who desire and do completely the will of God. Six verses say the Father is in the Christian ( 1 Cor.6:16; Eph.4:6; 1Jn 3:24, 1 Jn4:4, 1Jn 4:12-13, 1Jn 4:15-16). Eleven verses say Christ is in the Christian (Jn. 6:56; Jn 15:4-5; Jn. 17:23,26; Rom 8:10; 2 Cor. 13:5; Gal. 2:20; Gal.4:19;Eph. 3:17;Col. 1:27; Col.3:11; 1 peter 3:15). Six verses say the Holy Spirit is in the Christian (Jn 14:17; Rom 8:9; 1 Cor. 3:16; 1 Cor. 6:19; 2 Tim. 1:14) Twenty-three passages reveal that the Deity indwells the Christian.But again it is asked. How?” “ In what manner does Deity dwell? The answer is: “The Father, son and the Holy Spirit indwell the Christian in the same manner – through the Word of God. (1 Peter 1:23)” We need to make a Distinction between “word only” and “through the word” . When we use “ Through” we are saying that there is a “medium” that is the way the Godhead works!
Jay,
The Scripture declare in Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God, It does not say:" Faith comes by reading and reading the word of God"Our faith by hearing the word of God rest solidly upon the sufficient and conclusive and compelling evidence that the Bible is exactly what it claims to be- the Inspired,the infallible,the inerrant and all sufficient word of the living God (2 Tim. 3:16). When this fact (of its being what it claims to be) is established, then it itself in many areas become my evidence. The word becomes my "Shield" (Eph.6:16). We defend the faith and the faith defend us Our faith is not blind like the seculars dictionaries claim to be (Secular is equal humanism)Our Faith rest solidly upon conclusive and compelling evidence.Thing,hope,faith.word, evidences. (Hebrews 11:1) Those that are saying that the bible is just a Book are the "Humanist "Agnostics,materialistic" Romans 3:4 declare : Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written: “ That You may be justified in Your words, And may overcome when You are judged.” God create us So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Genesis 1:27. He create us with the ability of reasoning in " Isaiah 1:18“ Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the LORD, “ and discerning the Spirits (1Jo 4:1) that means test the teachings if are coming from God or Man?. The apostle Paul always try to reason with his countryman like in Acts 19:8 And he went into the synagogue and spoke boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading concerning the things of the kingdom of God. And sometime they so difficulty teaching the ways of the Lord, so they were to synagogues,temples and school like in Acts 19:9 But when some were hardened and did not believe, but spoke evil of the Way before the multitude, he departed from them and withdrew the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus.
The Bible declare: “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God” Rom. 10:17. Therefore, Biblical faith inherently involves: (1) The fact of the existence of God; (2) the fact of the existence of man;(the revealing ability of God to man; (4) the response ability of man to God; (5) the testimony of God to man; and (6) man’s proper response to that testimony.
Faith in the Bible sense of the Word – means taking God at His word.There is not Biblical faith where there is not testimony from God. Faith does not mean absence of evidence. As the humanist (Agnostic) Carl Sagan and Donald Rumsfeld Said : "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence!" This philosophy is called : Argument from ignorance, also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam or appeal to ignorance, is an informal logical fallacy. God said in Acts 17:30-31 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”. God expects us to be concerned about evidence. The very existence of the Bible presuppose the need for evidence. John said:”…but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.” John 20:31.
We are not inclined in the least to critize the attitude of Thomas (John 20:24,25). Rather, we have great respect and admiration for his attitude. His attitude was: “Without evidence I Will not belive. Gime the evidence and I will belive.” The Lord gave Thomas evidence. When Tomas saw the evidence, he declared: “ My Lord and My God.” Dr.Luke, the only trained scientist among the New Testament writers, made a through diagnosis of the whole matter and wrote as follows: “Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to draw up a narrative concerning those matters which have been fulfilled among us, even as they delivered them unto us, who from the beginning were eye-witnesses and ministers of the word, it seemed good to me also,having traced the course of all things accurately from the first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus; that thou mightiest know the certainty concerning the things wherein thou was instructed” (Luke 1:1-4).
Faith does not in all cases mean the absence of literal sight. Sometimes faith is clearly contrasted with sight (as in 2 Cor.5:7), but there can be faith where there is sight. The Lord said to Thomas
: “Because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed“ (John 10:29) Many more of the Samaritans believed on the Lord because His word (John 4:41) we have the example of Bereans Acts 17:11 “These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. The fact of their seeing Him did not prelude their believing on Him.There can be faith where there is no sight. The Lord said to Thomas: “… blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.” Neither does faith mean the absence of knowledge. It should be shouted from everywhere that Biblically approved faith does not rule out knowing. 2 Corinthians 5:6 “…So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord..” How did Paul know? “For we walk by faith, not by sight.” (2Cor.5:7). Here is knowledge which is the product of faith. Many of Samaria who believed on the Lord said to the woman:”Now we believe, not because of thy speaking; for we have heard for ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Saviour of the world” (John 4:42). These said: “We believe” and “We know.” Faith does not preclude knowledge, and knowledge does not preclude faith. Peter said to the Lord: “And we have believed and know that thou art the Holy One of God” (Jonh 6:69). (In the Gr. N.T both tenses verbs[“believed” and “know”] are perfect tense verbs. The force of this fact is , Peter literally says: “We have believed, we now believe, and we will continue to believe; we have know, we now know, and we will continue to know” The believing and the knowing are coextensive.) Paul said:”…. I know whom I have believed” (2 Tim. 1:12).
Guestfortruth,
Off topic and in good humour… Are you a Greek scholar because your last post is like reading a uncial MS (ha ha – my friend)
I'm sure Jay will reply to your post later.
Jay,
So what view of the Holy Spirit are you teaching? or are you teaching that " The Spirit dwells in the Christian directly "Miraculous", without medium, separate and apart and over and above the written word ? This doctrine is the Direct operation of the Holy Spirit (Calvinism). What teaching of the Holy Spirit do you teach?
Psalm 15:2
He who walks uprightly,And works righteousness, And speaks the truth in his heart;
Psalm 33:4
For the word of the LORD is right,And all His work is done in truth.
2 Peter 1:12-15
" For this reason I will not be negligent to remind you always of these things, though you know and are established in the present truth. 13 Yes, I think it is right, as long as I am in this tent, to stir you up by reminding you, 14 knowing that shortly I must put off my tent, just as our Lord Jesus Christ showed me. 15 Moreover I will be careful to ensure that you always have a reminder of these things after my decease."
GuestforTruth,
I'm not trying to fit in anyone's pigeon hole.
Please don't test what I say against tracts and bulletin articles. Test me against the scriptures.
And, no, I'm not a Calvinist. If you think you see Calvinism in what I write, you've either misunderstood me or Calvin.
Jay,
Me neither !
Sure , I will test your Teaching! (1 Jn. 4:1) . I am sorry if I label you as a Calvinistic but Just saying that " Therefore, when Cornelius received the Spirit, as an outpouring, before baptism, Cornelius was saved before baptism." That fall in the category of Calvinism! Irresistible grace "God sends the Holy Spirit only those on the saved list which removes their depraved nature inherited from Adam and creates within them a saving faith in Christ." All denomination has 1 or 3 points from calvin. His theology was a reaction very opposite to catholic theology. both are wrong!! James 2:17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
1 Cor. 1:10 "10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." 1 Cor 4:17 "17 For this reason I have sent Timothy to you, who is my beloved and faithful son in the Lord, who will remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach everywhere in every church."
It would seem of little value to label one another's statements as Calvinistic or not Calvinistic or Galvanized or anything else when very key words are being used with such imprecise definitions. Words used imprecisely make communication even more difficult, because people may use their own meanings. Not recommended (1 Cor 14:23). However, "…you all speak the same thing…" is recommended, as pointed out by Guestfortruth. So, let's try to speak the same definition and not present the same problem as when one speaking in tongues without interpretation.
"Therefore, when Cornelius received the Spirit, as an outpouring, before baptism, Cornelius was saved before baptism."
I used to say that the account of Cornelius was an "exception to the rule" of conversions in Acts because I didn't like the confusing sequence of things, not to mention all the falling on and the tongue speaking and all that. Nonsense. Cornelius rules. Cornelius IS the rule. There is no other conversion in Acts to which Luke devotes more space and detail. And to make sure we get it straight, Luke covers the conversion three (3) times!! There is no other place where all the physical aspects of spiritual salvation are covered in such detail. Faith, obedience, preaching, gift of the Holy Spirit, external manifestations, Spirit baptism, water baptism, fellowship and including the time of salvation — all covered together with clear identification and sequence. And God says loud and clear that HE is in charge of His salvation and He determines who receives His salvation and when it occurs and we do not!! Anyone, who interjects water baptism into the sequence where God didn't, falls into the second category. Not recommended.
There are only two places in Acts (Day of Pentecost and Cornelius) where Luke identifies all of the following things — speaking in tongues as external manifestations falling on or filling without laying on of hands, baptism in the Holy Spirit as quoted in John's prophecy, water baptism either specifically said or strongly implicated, pouring out of the Spirit, the gift (dorea, not charismata) of the Holy Spirit. corporate fellowship following conversion, and the use of the "double definite article" when referring to the Holy Spirit (the Spirit the Holy). Many of these things are unique to these two places.
A previous quote, stated more precisely, would be "Therefore, when Cornelius was baptized within the Holy Spirit by Jesus, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, and was come upon when the Spirit the Holy was poured out, before baptism within water, Cornelius was saved before he was baptized within water."
I will claim the above quote, so no one else will have to scramble to dissociate themselves from any responsibility or agreement. Note that being more precise also produces a run-on sentence. Buy, hey, Paul did that, too.
Why is precision important in defining baptism? Because Cornelius was saved when he was baptized by Jesus (the baptizer) within the Holy Spirit (actually Spirit Holy in the Greek) in the spiritual realm, and he was saved before his was baptized within water by humans in the physical realm, because that occurred later.
Two baptisms? That's what John the Baptist said. That's what Jesus said in Acts 1:5. Better define which baptism one is talking about. But Paul said that there is only one baptism (Eph. 4:5) — there can't be two! Okay, guess which one Paul had to be talking about. Baptism within the Spirit or baptism within water.
Hint: 1 Cor 12:13 – "For we were all baptized within one Spirit into (eis) one body…."
Well, then, it's a moot point because both baptisms have to occur at the same time. Oh? Please reread the conversion of Cornelius. Cornelius rules!
There is a lot, lot more that could be discussed about this topic if anyone is interested.
I want to contribute a little about the Bible Baptism
BAPTISM OF THE BIBLE
“…of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. (Hebrew 6:2).
It is obvious there were various baptism in the Bible. What were they? To whom did they apply? What was their purpose? Consider the following:
1.- The Baptism of Moses (1 Cor. 10:2) The Journey of the Israelites from bondage in nEgypt to Canaan is a type of the Christian’s journey from bondage in sin to heaven. The passage of the Israelites through the Red Sea on this journey, with the water around them and the cloud over them serves as a prototype of the water baptism commanded by Christ and the apostles.
2.- The Baptism of Suffering ( Matthew 20:22,23;Mark 10:38-39; Luke 12:50).
Jesus anticipated his suffering which would be so overwhelming He Spoke of it as a baptism.
3.- The Baptism of the Holy Spirit ( Mattew 3:11 b; Mark 1:8b; Luke 3:16b; John 1:33b; Acts 1:5; Acts 11:16). This was a promised baptism that was fulfilled in the apostles (Acts 2 ) and to the household of Cornelius (Acts 10) At no time was anyone ever commanded to be baptized in the Holy Spirit nor is it ever said a Holy Spirit baptism would put one into Christ. When the apostles were baptized with the Holy Spirit, things Jesus taugh were brought to their remembrance (John 14:26), and they were guided into all truth (John 16:13). At the household of Cornelius Holy Spirit baptism was to convince the Jews present that God accepted the Gentiles to be fellow heirs in the family of God (Acts 11:14-18). Holy Spirit baptism was not designed to continue through the centuries.
4.- The Baptism of Fire ( Matthew 3:11; Luke 3:16) This baptism refers to the overwhelming punishment awaiting those who do not obey the Gospel,. It has to do with the destiny of the wicked. ( Note. Matthew 3:12).
5.- The Baptism of John ( Matthew 3:6,7,12,13,16; Mt.16:21:25; Mark 1:4,5,8a,9; Mark 11:30; Luke 3:3,21; Luke 7:29,30; Luke 20:4; Acts 1:22; Acts 10:37, Acts 13:24; Acts 18:25; Acts 19:3,4; John 1:23,25,26,28,31, 33a, John 10:40; Acts 1:5a; 11:16.
This was a water baptism administered to jews before the crucifixion of Christ. It was preceded by repentence and confession of sins (Mt. 3:2,6; Mark 1:4). Both John and the disciples of Jesus administrered it (Mt. 3:11; John 4:1,2). It was a means of preparing material for the approaching Kingdom. It is not in force today ( Acts 19:1-6).
6.- The water Batism commanded by Jesus and the Apostles (Mt.28:19,20; Mark 16:16; John 3:5; Acts 2:38,41; Acts 8:12,13,16; Romans 6:3,4; 1 Cor. 1:13-17, 1 Cor.12:13; Galatians 3:27; Ephesians 4:4; Colossians 2:12; 1 peter 3:21).
This is the baptism administered by the disciples on and after the day of Pentecost to penitent belivers for the remission of their sins. It is a vital part of the new birth and is the one baptism of which Paul Speaks in Ephesians 4:5. It stand between the lost alien sinner and pardon. It is the only baptism that applies in the present century.
What about the “doctrine of baptism” of Hebrews 6:2?
These probably refer to the Baptism of John, the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the baptism administered by the disciples on and after the day of Pentecost. No new baptism is suggested here.
What about the baptism for the dead of 1 Cor. 15:29?
This probably has reference to the water baptism administed by the disciples on and after the day of Pentecost to penitent believer when they anticipated their approaching deaths ( death to sin). Personal responsibility rules out the possibility of a proxy baptism for people who are already physically dead.
What about a spirit baptism for alien sinner today?
According to Paul there is now only one baptism (Ephesians 4:5). The water baptism administered by the disciples on and after the day of Pentecost to penitent believers is the one. It is the one that saves (Acts 2:38, 1 peter 3:21). The idea of a spirit baptism must surely grow out of a misunderstanding of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, yet even this baptism was never said to save anyone. The alien sinner needs to hear the gospel, believe it, repent of his sins, confess for the remission of his sins. HAVE YOU BEEN BAPTIZED FOR THE REMISSION OF YOUR SINS?
An identical message by GuestForTruth was posted both on this thread and also on the thread below:
Baptism, An Exploration: Final Baptism Poll (For Now)
I have responded to GuestForTruth's message on Baptism, An Exploration: Final Baptism Poll (For Now). If interested, please refer to that thread.
Thanks.