I get emails —
I am a graduate of a CENI school, and I have moved far, far away from the “conservative” CoC movement, and have been “marked and avoided” by many whom I thought were friends. Since then the church where I preach has come a long way, as the brethren here trust me and know me, and were/are willing to sit and talk about these issues.
How do I (we) get to know other churches who are, well, “progressive”? How do I get to know other ministers who are “progressive,” etc?
And, if my family and I are asked to leave because of our “liberal” views (which is a bit of a concern), how would we find a place that would hold the same views we do? (My only contacts for many years have been in the CENI camp, and I just couldn’t go to another place like that).
(For readers new to Church of Christ internet discussions, “CENI” means command, example, necessary inference. The author of the email means he’s a graduate of a theologically legalistic Church of Christ school.)
Regarding finding community for yourself and your congregation
I’ll answer the best I can, but I’ve never quite been in this situation. I know that many readers have been, and I’m sure they’ll have thoughts to add.
There’s no list of progressive churches, and there are plenty of churches that wouldn’t want to wear that brand although — like your church — they are moving away from legalism and are also looking for community among like-minded, recovering legalists. As a result, I couldn’t even give you a definitive list of Alabama “progressive” congregations. (The reader is not from Alabama.)
But here are some thoughts —
1. Attend lectureships at the more progressive universities — Pepperdine, ACU, Lipscomb, Rochester. And the Tulsa Workshop. Network there. You’ll find thousands of likeminded preachers, elders, and other church leaders. Encourage your elders and other leaders to do the same.
2. Attend ElderLink. It’s a also great chance to network with likeminded leaders. Again, encourage your leadership to be there, too.
3. To find likeminded churches in your part of the world, tour church websites. Most churches leave “breadcrumbs” on their sites to show their leanings, such as a link to OneInJesus or to Al Maxey, so insiders know the direction they’re heading.
4. If you’re ready for the public exposure, comment at One In Jesus and other blogs and forums using your real name and congregation. Pretty soon, likeminded leaders in your area will seek you out, for the same reasons you’re seeking them.
5. You might invite a prominent progressive speaker to teach a Saturday seminar at your church and invite all the churches in the area! We invited Rubel Shelly to speak to us several years ago, and we were surprised at who all showed up — despite the many who wrote letters warning us against his “heresy”! In the process, you’ll receive a number of encouraging phone calls from ministers in the area who agree with you — either secretly or overtly. It led to closer fellowship with some other churches that we had no idea were headed in a similar direction.
Regarding finding a church willing to hire a preacher “marked” by the legalists
Now, if they run you out of the church for your views, you need to network with the Church of Christ universities — even the more conservative ones, which can often be very gracious in helping you find likeminded churches looking for a preacher despite your progressive proclivities.
I have links on the site for universities that help to bring preachers and churches together. All universities have a professor or administrator who helps play matchmaker for churches and ministers. A phone call to the head of the Bible department will put you in touch with the right person.
This sounds like a minister I know. I hope he understands I consider him a good friend even though I must respectfully disagree theologically.
Don't be afraid to network outside the churches of Christ. Most obviously, independent Christian congregations and Disciples of Christ. But also many community churches.
Ask those of the conservative churches where is the most progressive church in town. I'm sure they have heard many sermons mentioning our erring brethren.
Everyone in business knows who their competition is.
If you are a member of a progressive church then you probably don't believe that only members of the Church of Christ are saved, therefore this opens the door to many non-denominational churches which are very Bible based with whom we can dialogue. It is amazing to see the dynamic, Bible based, growing churches out there with members who are in love with Jesus Christ and not merely in love with the "church".
I'm the minister of the Oasis church of Christ in Georgetown, Kentucky. If you need someone to discuss stuff with just email me at [email protected]
Jay,
Great article for those that have moved or are thinking of moving from the conservative wing to the progressive wing of our movement. I am not a minister by trade, but attended a conservative CoC University as well. Having made the change myself in the last couple of years, I know firsthand how hard it can be to find helpful resources in making the transition. I did many of the things suggested here: followed the happenings at progressive universities (like Abilene & Pepperdine), searched for progressive blogs online (Yours, Maxey), read books of progressive authors (Rubel Shellu & John Mark Hicks), and visited congregations I heard the conservatives hurling judgments at. The change has not been easy, but the freedom that experiencing the grace and peace of God brings has been life changing!
Jay,
You mentioned that it would be a good idea to paraticipate in the lectureships at ACU, Lipscomb, etc. Harding was not named, and we have a child who is considering going there. I know it would be your humble opinion…but it need some imput from you and your listeners……….is Harding too tied to the past? Is the truth breaking out there as well? Keith???? Should I discourage attending Harding? I hate to put some of you on the spot……..but this is important!
David,
I attend a progressive CoC in the Memphis, TN area and many of our youth go to Harding. I went to FHU and definitely do not recommend it to anyone now that I am no longer a legalist. My sense is that Harding has a mixture of conservative and progressive that is hard to exactly nail down, maybe others can tell you more. Your child would probably find both types there in abundance, it is the largest CoC university by far. As far as the Harding Graduate School of Religion here in Memphis, I have only heard great things, and knowing several of the graduates and some professors I would have to agree! If I had a child going to college, I would probably choose a Lipscomb over Harding, but I live in TN. Based on where you live and what part of the country your child would like to attend school in, I might consider a Lipscomb, Abilene, or Pepperdine.
Hi David,
I attended Harding and graduated in 2006. I loved it there! I believe that Lipscomb and Harding are both wonderful schools in different ways. Having your son/daughter come up with attributes they'd like in their college may make navigating this decision a little easier.
Personally, I wanted to attend a Christian university not too close but not too far away from home. I wanted it to be medium sized, and I didn't want to get lost in the crowd. I wanted to attend a place where I would have Bible classes daily and each semester. I liked that Harding's freshman Bible courses were every day–they gave me a solid foundation upon which to build on in future semesters. I didn't want to be in the middle of a big city, but still close enough to one I could visit there if I so chose. I wanted the option of on campus housing my entire time there; I believe staying in a dorm forces you to make friends with people you might not come across otherwise, and helps make your college experience more sociable. The university needed to have a strong nursing program, as that was the major I declared.
I have cousins who attended Lipscomb and who are also now attending Lipscomb, and love it there too. I don't believe you attend quite as many Bible classes and are not required to attend chapel each day, so the feel of it is a bit more….relaxed? That's not the right word. Also, it's in Nashville….such a great city! However, the campus is smaller, and they don't have much room to grow, so maybe the feel of Lipscomb is a bit different from Harding? I'm not sure if you're required to live on campus or not, and I'm not sure if you can bring a car your Freshman year (You can at Harding. Big plus for me!). I think Lipscomb has improved in the years since I attended college, so I'm not sure if I would have decided in the same way as I did back in 2003.
Visit the campuses, attend summer sessions at each (if possible), and continue to try to network. If your son/daughter wants to talk to someone directly, Jay can give you my number. I'm his daughter in law =) And if he/she wanted to talk to somene currently attending Lipscomb, I may be able to help you out there too.
Good luck!
David,
I've had two children and a daughter-in-law graduate from Harding. Here's the deal —
1. Harding has a long tradition of not taking sides in CoC controversies. They stayed out of non-institutional debate in the 1950s. As a result, they still get students from NI churches. And they are staying out of the current fight as well — as best they can.
2. They have both conservative and progressive faculty in the Bible dept. A student could, if he wished, create a traditional or progressive track throught the Bible courses. I wouldn't hesitate to have a child of mine attend.
I've spoken at the Harding Lectureships on legal issues affecting churches. Bruce Morton has spoke there on instrumental music last year. They tend to favor relatively non-controversial names, although they invite speakers from the progressive side of the denomination.
I've been to Pepperdine, ACU, and Lipscomb's lectureships — at least twice each. They draw people I'd consider among the very best speakers in the brotherhood and are great places to meet people — and to be encouraged, inspired, and educated if you are looking for a more progressive community.
I've never been to Tulsa (you really can't get there from here), but I've seen the speaker lists, and it's impressive. And I've heard nothing but good about it.
Thanks Garrett, Erin and Jay. Now if I could only hear from my beloved child which university it will be. My child is accepted to ACU, Lipscomb, and Harding and we have deposits paid to hold a place at all three……..;..but no decision from the little stinker! I think if a decision is not made soon…….I shall explode. Please pray that I don't wring someone's neck!
Legalistic is an unbiblical term and a wrong description of this school. It is an approach to scripture that is maybe too narrow or formalistic, but it does have some very valid points.
If I look at the "alternative" – i.e. the progressive appriach – I feel a lot more uncomfortable … It is just another kind of "legalism", but a hiden and more deceiving one, trying to determine the minimum that is necessary in order to be saved (in contrast to define and stribve for the maximum); or the minimum of regulations that are necessary for the church. But it is an equally "legal" approach to the matter, in no waay superior to the CENI (a quasi-maximalist approach, although inherently minimalistic as well).
As long as one doesn't follow God's Word simply because He is God, he is on a side track, eventually missing the point and the goal.
Alexander
And Alex you could not have been more wrong in your description of my theology and practice as a "progressive."
I believe in doing exactly what God has said for the exact reasons He has said it because He is God. I am not seeking a "minimum" approach, nor has such ever entered my mind. In fact my practice is a bit more full than many of the traditionalists I know. I am sure there are progressives who fit your description, but I don't recall anything like that ever being posted by anyone here. To me legalists are those obsessed with keeping law to the extent that they will turn the Scriptures inside out to find the proper law for every situation- even where the Scripture doesn't necessarily address their particular issue. The progressive approach I follow and have seen here is a willingness to take God at His word, rely on His grace and obey His commands as a means of living out His Gospel. Truthfully I have often felt that the "progressives" are the true "conservatives" as far as the text is concerned. We tend to be "strict constructionists" when it comes to the rules we bind on others.
I did not think of you Todd, but I wrote out of an overall impression.
I could (and can) accept differences in the IM question, but I also pointed out frequently that the propblem lies a lot deeper: Conforming to the world. The discussion in the "buried talents" thread got tp a point where I had to see and accept that (at least many) progressive churches are on a way I cannot recommend anymore. I can't be silent on that.
I am not one who picks and chooses verses for any fitting and unfitting situation – I am not sure whether "conservative" is what i am. But I am also not one who takes the liberty to comment a verse with: "Well this has no meaning for us today anymore" or "we are free to do otherwise." But it is prexcisely this attitzude I found in the debates over and over again. Of course not in this wording (this would be too revealing).
I observe all of this as one who did not grow up in a US-church of Christ, but joined an Austrian church of Christ. I read what is being written here with some deep concerns what else will come over the ocean over to us. I am not happy at all to be honest. The direction this split from the churches of Christ is heading I view as wriong and dangerous.
Not that the conservative churches of Christ don't need correction as well, but not this way. Yes they are sometimes very narrow, binding things that canot be bound … and some have deep doubts about their salvation because they are not perfect enough. The answer to this is a deeper knowledge of Chrait and His Grace. The answers are NOT IM (for better feelings?) or female preachers (for a less offensive church order?). And that's what makes me very very unhappy.
I'd rather not debate IM or female preachers, both is neither fun nor edifying. I could skip the IM-debate entirely if it were not rooted in the same wrong kind of reasoning and questionable approach to the Bible and church History. So it's not about the specific issues, but about the approach, the mindset and the attitude. I fear that secular philosophy crept into our churches and makes its way there like cancer.
Alexander
Alexander,
And, in America it works both ways. The Ultra Conservatives, if you will, have the same problem of going back while the progressives are going forward, both too much.
That is a natural reaction to any move forward be it religious or secular.
Too move too far at the beginning is to be expected and after much debate and thinking, moving more in a backward direction closer to center is the norm.
Our problem is we have been too far in one direction for way too long and that motion back to center or right, is now happening and folks are calling it progressive and are preaching like mad that we are all lost (nicely put, in error) to stop it. At the same time those opposed to many things of the past, not all by any means, are becoming bold and outspoken in our real beliefs and our known relationship with God, meaning the Godhead three.
You see what's posted on here as progressives so, let me give you and example of the conservatives posting. I recommend the new conservatives "Preachers Files" forum. A brother sent me a copy of the topics of a conservative lectureship to be held here in Alabama at Courtland that is coming up soon.
The topics are supposed to be those same beliefs and practices of the past as holding those as truth and in practice honoring those old time church of Christ preachers of distinction is the right thing to do. I agree with most of that, but certainly not all.
To any like myself that grew up in that teaching and worshiping I see many topics that were held to be written in stone and hell damnation is sure for you if you didn't follow them are not mentioned and not practiced any more in their churches today. No one wants to speak on those but, they were the hot topic of yesterday.
Bring back the dead preachers in the church s of Christ from the 40 and 50's and they would tell all those speaking they were going to hell for being progressive or in their words 'Liberal". Two main topics missing is the covering which was required of ALL women while at services. Extra ones were available in case an unknowing woman came to visit. Another is the Lords Supper only once a Sunday as it was only taken "when they all came together for that purpose". Now all I know of offer it on Sunday night as well.
God is watching all of this and our attitudes is foremost. There will not be a written exam given afteer we die before entering Heaven but God will examine how and what did we DO to and for our fellow man and the furthering of His gospel even if it had some errors in it due to us not understanding it all just right.
Always look circumspectly and keep stumbling forward is our lot.
We'll never see a sunrise if we keep our eyes westward!!!
Yes, you are right – these debates drive us away from another and force us (or make us inclined to) to take extreme positions. I don't like this, and I notice within myself how quickly the emotions run wild.
Last night I read in C.H. Spurgeons Biography about the "Downgrade-Controversy" among the Baptists in the late 1800s. Libereal theology got a foothold in the Baptist-Denomination and Spurgeon was one of the few who stood up against it. Eventually this controversy destroyed his health and led to his rather untimely death. He separted with his congregation from the Baptist denomination because of all the changes.
About the same time, just acroos the ocean the liberal wing of the churches of Christ caused a similar uproar, which led to the big split where the Disciples of Christ/Christian Churches had their beginning.
History repeats itself, and we deal with (basically) the same questions today. Yet we have an advantage: Look at the Disciples of Christ today. Look at the mainline Baptists! We know where the roads leads, we don't have to try it out ourselves anymore.
Alexander
I have a friend who took a preaching job in a small south Texas town, preaching in a small coc tucked away on the fringe of town. They had never impacted the town except for the few members who attended. Baptisms were mostly children reaching maturity.
My friend's first association outside the congregation was the local Baptist pastor. He soon invited my friend to preach on his radio show. I'll make a long story short. Now this once silent coc congregation that had a silent presence in town quickly became the leading church in the area. They have embraced the message of grace and regularly baptize people from all sorts of back grounds. The local newspaper invited him to write a weekly column and the church is making a huge impact for Christ in that place. Not long ago my friend preached a funeral in a Catholic church in town. He is a faithful "gospel" preacher in the most literal sense and God has honored his faithfulness to stay on message.
So, as someone already suggested, don't limit yourself to only one branch of a great tree of faithful people.
Royce
Royce,
What must be overcome for us to grow and influence our children to stay (which is another topic on here) is the teaching that only a few will be saved and go to heaven. Teaching of "narrow is the way and few there be that goeth therein" kills all incentive to go out and do what your friend in Texas is doing. The smug, superior attitude of those NOT growing is very difficult to overcome. This being a sign of "Being Faithful". Young and old people of today are seeing through this and leaving to get away from it..
When your church grows and retains its children it will be severely criticized, not applauded and copied. I don't know how to overcome that thinking. Many pray for the answer every day.
How many are lost because of that restraint?
Alexander,
You are not alone in your concerns, even though you may have good reason to feel that way. I have some similar concerns.
I see it similar regarding this hybris of "superiority" (of being the one and only church, no matter how lifeless we are).
Yet we cannot skip the teaching of the narrow way, because it's the Lord's teaching. We cannot skip all the passages on separation in both covenants just in order to be more unified with other churches.
I would call this a dilemma. I do have good friends in an Evangelical church where I was baptized, and we use their facilities for worship. They now did something that would make it different to have a communion service together (something I had envisioned for the future). No, not the instruments, which they use abundantly. They started to serve the Lord's Supper to unbaptized children, if their parents want to. That's just one small example of churches doing things that hinder fellowship by changing the course in order to broaden the path.
I once had this picture: There is this narrow way, and several groups of people are on it. One group is sitting there in the middle of the road, sort of blockingthe way. They are having intense Bible Studies and rejoice constantly over tha fact that "they made it", because they are on the narrow way. A second group a little behind this one is dissatisfied with the narrowness of the narrow way. So they grabed their spades and shovel and work the whole day in an effeort to widen the path. Both groups are stuck. They make no progress on the way and will not reach the destination where this way would want them to lead. It's just a thrird, but rather small group, that makes progress because it walks the way, stumbling forward and pushing ahead.
Which group do we belong to?
Alexander
Alabama John,said this was a hindrance to preaching the gospel, "narrow is the way and few there be that goeth therein" , John do you know of other things Jesus said that is a hindrance to Christians ?
Mat 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
Alex. where is it said to deny children "the Lord's Supper" ?
laymond,
How scripture is taken and interpreted to make folks feel exclusively saved and ALL others lost that disagree is the hindrance. There are many used.
John, you are certainly right, he didn't say "the CoC is the way" but if you believe the bible, he did say " and few there be that goeth therein" , so I am led to believe most are not going. What is wrong in telling people we believe we are doing what Jesus requires of us to navigate that narrow path. If we believe we are not doing what is right, I don't know why we are doing it. It might be hard to get a person to join a cause in which the members do not believe. Right or wrong, most CoC members, I know, believe they are doing what is right.
Laymond,
I certainly agree with that.
When a church starts growing by getting out and actually meeting strangers and telling them the story of Jesus and because of that growing in number other churches condemn them for not being one of the FEW, that is where I see fault.
We are to preach the gospel, in season and out, forget numbers. Rejoice if many come to Christ.. God will give the increase. It is not for us to stop going out among them for fear we are bringing more than a FEW to Christ and thereby doing wrong by not being the few and so going to hell.
I believe there will be more accepted in heaven than we think as those that are referred to in Romans 4:15 will be there "for where no law is there is no transgression" and that throughout mans history up to today and the future is a lot of folks.
Few there be that goeth threin may of been a specific point rather than generaL
"Few there be that goeth therein I believe is a relative number, relative to what,? to those who do not.
Alexander,
Do you think there are matters that are more important than others? Are there such things as "weightier matters of the law"?
Even if you're right that some of these individual issues are really just symptomatic of something deeper, does that "something deeper" negatively effect people's ability to conform to the "weightier matters"? (Note: My questions to not assume that non-weighty matters have *no* weight or that we can treat them as such. That's not what i'm asking nor getting at.)
–guy
John, the disagreements on this blog, and many others, convince me that I am right, when I have said young preachers should be apprentices for many years before feeding a flock. a person needs time to develop a theological doctrine, I have heard some who have taught the word for many years, say I was wrong, I have changed my mind. yet there is no way to recall what they have taught. I told one young preacher he needed more training, and he said Jesus was only thirty, I told him if he spoke only the words of God he could not go wrong either. but when you start interpreting the word of God you will. IMO the same applies to Elders.
Jay:
Your "progressive" and "conservative" "crystallization" does harm. You are correct that "legalism" can and does threaten every congregation (even those who believe they are a million miles away from "legalism"; true legalism focuses away from Christ and toward culture). You are incorrect that the alternative to such is your suggestion of "progressive." Your essay does not reflect me theologically and it does not reflect many I know (whom you might call "legalistic."). It misrepresents people considerably.
Understanding the implications of Jesus' words in John 14:30-31 and acting on them can look "legalistic" at times to others, but is not. Instead, it represents a keen awareness of the reality and danger of a spiritual siege.
I hope you reconsider what you have written.
In Christ,
Bruce Morton
Katy, Texas
Alexander,
Groups pictured. Which group? Good thinking. Makes us stop and consider.
Laymond,
Only thirty, what an answer, now that's hilarious!
Many go out with shovels and picks widening the road that was too narrow. Easier and far more fulfilling to widen the road than to stop traffic.
Laymond & John,
Don't you think there's a difference between 40 years of experience and 1 year of experience repeated 40 times?
If so, then how does age necessitate wisdom or youth the lack thereof?
–guy
Guy,
Many will not discuss or read anything that is not printed by those of their belief.
That is not examining is it. Those are the 40 years of the same 1st year lesson.
Experience has taught that in order to have someone listen to your point of view, its best to listen and consider and discuss theirs.
Like the old saying: They don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.
Charles,
The majority will alway want you to fail at any endeavor as succeeding makes them look bad when they said it couldn't be done so why try, and you did it after all.
On the other hand I remember a story that went like this: They told the man it couldn't be done and with a smile he went right to it. He tackled the job that couldn't be done and by golly he couldn't do it!
Sure been there too!!!!
John,
Perhaps it is an example of 1 year of experience 40 times. My real point was about age. Was it a mistake for Paul to make a very young Timothy a church-worker like himself?
–guy
Guy, do you know how many years Timothy studied under Paul?
Why did Paul think it necessary to travel from church to church?
Guy,
Yes, and Judas was recruited young also. To have 40 years of different experiences you have to of lived 40 years. Timothy could not have that.
There is one BIG difference and that is along with the responsibility Paul had an added gift to bestow on Timothy that we do not have today. What a blessing and burden to put on young Timothy.
Laymond,
Years studied is fine, granted the program is worthwhile. But a program of education still does not necessarily imply a certain age.
–guy
John
You wrote:
"Yes, and Judas was recruited young also."
Which further proves that age does not necessitate a certain character.
So because miraculous gifts ceased, that means young people shouldn't serve in the same capacity Timothy did?
–guy
You know, Laymod, this text is used to "proove" the the validity of infant baptism. We need to be consistant: If we believe, children can take the Lord's Supper we might as well baptize them.
Only those can partake from the one bread that are part of the body of Christ. We become Christians and members of the body through baptism. I am surprized that some here are puzzled by my statement ….
Alexander
Guy,
Age does not make character, but it sets it..
The young men need to serve an apprenticeship first. Timothy did.
My advice to them when starting out preaching is not to write anything down that they believe or teach. It has the tendency to bite you later in life when you have had more experience.
John,
Why are the millenials leaving the church? That's a reason if ever i heard one–apparently they know nothing or have nothing to contribute such that they shouldn't even act as though their beliefs matter.
Some people in the Bible had good character and wisdom while young. Some people in the Bible had terrible characters even when they were old. (And of course, vice versa.) The point then is probably not age, but the fact that God can use anyone.
If i decide someone isn't worth listening to on account of their age, that says more about my lack of faith in God to use anyone than it says about their age. (Or on account of their gender or ethnicity or political affiliation, for that matter. Prejudice is prejudice.)
–guy
Guy,
I come from a culture where young folks listen to older ones.
Even in fishing, honey gathering or frog gigging, I asked older men how to do it that I saw were successful at it.
Listen to young men? Sure we should, then answer their questions.
The Bible tells young men to listen to the older men.
Old men make mistakes but not as many as young men as the old men have already made those mistakes and learned from it..Play the percentages.
Old men having more life experiences than young people is NOT why young people are leaving the church.
Those same young people are not hesitant at all to consult old men and women on many other subjects and respect their advice.
I knew you were leading me to your conclusion. That is also wisdom from an old man!!
Dear Guy, you asked:
The answer is:
the answer to your quetsion is the last sentence in that quote.
Alexander
Tood,
Do you remember the old times when you were a bible student ? Did they teach you how to live a godly life? what about the topic the preacher and his family? The school of preaching that you attended years ago in just 2 years gave you more resources as you can get in a "Christian" University Bible department. If you put a Christian University graduate in theology compare with a school of preaching graduate, the School of preaching in just 2 intensive years of training knows more bible that a College Graduate in Bible does in 4 years. Because in the school of preaching they study the whole counsel of God with all their heart and mind to be ready for an answer of the faith. 1 peter 3:15 .
….. continuation
Have you studied the Law of Christ? . The conservatives in the coC still conserve the Doctrine (didache) "teaching" of Christ with out adding or taking away. They respect the Law of the earth as the Law of Christ expressed in the teaching of Christ. According to Jay the Non-institutional are the conservatives, but they are called : Antis- School of Preaching,Cups,Bible Class,Kitchen. making Law were there is no scripture. Have you read the book about " Anti-ism" from God or man? Have you read the book " fruits of liberalism". It's well documentated all the trends going on in the churches of Christ. God wants us to obey the Laws from this earth but mainly his commandments (Law of Christ).
what happened in the line of history since the 50 has been those among us that slowly has been adopting denominational Doctrines. In the 70, some brethrens confront the false teaching of Lynn Anderson (Herald of truth) at Highland Church and supposedly Rubel Shelly was conservative at that time but years later he was with Lynn and they agree to make their own way and a lot of the young Generation were teaching from them what today we see "Navigating the Wind of Change" even Rubel was given all trust by our brotherhood and we consider him an apologetic among us until he start his own way becoming ecumenist with his sermon “ Fellowship wit “f” (Our brotherhood) or Fellowship with big “F” (denominations) interdenominational and he still has some influence in once called "Christian" Universities. Where do you think the idea that the church of Christ is a Denomination? The Bible warrant the purpose of the church that belong to Christ and hold the real teaching of Grace not the version of Rubel or other brothers have adopted with the years.
Can we learn from the examples in the Scriptures? as mention after the death of Salomon. His son ask advise tho the elders how to guide the people of Israel and what happened? He ignore their advise and went following the advise of his young friends and you see the result. The division of the 12 tribes and Juda ( 2 tribes) and Israel (10 tribes). 2 chronicles 10:6-10.
Alexander,
Explain clear the teaching of Jesus about who is going to be save walking as Jesus the narrow way! by John More.
You can find the video on youtube
Searching For Truth – http://www.searchingfortruth.org
Titus 2:6-10 "6 Likewise, exhort the young men to be sober-minded, 7 in all things showing yourself to be a pattern of good works; in doctrine showing integrity, reverence, incorruptibility,8 sound speech that cannot be condemned, that one who is an opponent may be ashamed, having nothing evil to say of you.[b]
9 Exhort bondservants to be obedient to their own masters, to be well pleasing in all things, not answering back, 10 not pilfering, but showing all good fidelity, that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things."