Can the presence of the Spirit be discerned by observation?
A reader asked whether the ultimate test of Christian fellowship isn’t in fact the presence of the Spirit. That’s exactly the view of Barton W. Stone, and his opinion is built on a lot of scripture.
It’s clear from the scriptures, I’m persuaded, that the presence of the Spirit is supposed to be visible — not necessarily by miracles (as we tend to use the term) but by the changes the Spirit makes to our hearts. And the scriptures plainly teach that those with the Spirit are saved, and those without the Spirit are not.
Circumcision of the Spirit
I’ve covered these verses many times, but not always to make this point. The Old Testament passages that prophesy the outpouring of God’s Spirit on all God’s people speak of the Spirit as powerfully changing hearts and as marking God’s people.
(Deu 30:6 ESV) 6 And the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.
Circumcision was a visible, tangible sign of God’s people. God told the Israelites that there would come a day when circumcision of the flesh by the hands of man would be replaced with circumcision of the heart by the hand of God himself.
(Rom 2:29 ESV) 29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.
The heart of a Christian is transformed by the hand of God — not by “the letter” — because only God can give the Spirit. It’s not just a matter of reading and obeying. It’s also God in us transforming us to have circumcised hearts — hearts that plainly evidence his presence in us.
The Spirit as a distinguishing mark
Isaiah prophesies a day when God will pour out his Spirit with the result that those who possess the Spirit will declare, “I am the LORD’s.”
(Isa 44:3-5 ESV) 3 For I will pour water on the thirsty land, and streams on the dry ground; I will pour my Spirit upon your offspring, and my blessing on your descendants. 4 They shall spring up among the grass like willows by flowing streams. 5 This one will say, ‘I am the LORD’s,’ another will call on the name of Jacob, and another will write on his hand, ‘The LORD’s,’ and name himself by the name of Israel.”
Ezekiel says that a day is coming when God’s people will all have God’s Spirit within them —
(Eze 36:26-27 ESV) 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.
Ezekiel then speaks of the valley of dry bones, and God promises to give life to the bones once again —
(Eze 37:11-14 ESV) 11 Then he said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are indeed cut off.’ 12 Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will open your graves and raise you from your graves, O my people. And I will bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And you shall know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people. 14 And I will put my Spirit within you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I am the LORD; I have spoken, and I will do it, declares the LORD.”
Notice the impact of God giving his Spirit: “you shall know that I am the LORD.” Why? Because only God can give life to the dead. And when God transforms hearts — replacing hearts of stone with hearts of flesh — the work of God can be seen.
(Eze 36:35-36 ESV) 35 And they will say, ‘This land that was desolate has become like the garden of Eden, and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are now fortified and inhabited.’ 36 Then the nations that are left all around you shall know that I am the LORD; I have rebuilt the ruined places and replanted that which was desolate. I am the LORD; I have spoken, and I will do it.”
God intends for his heart-changing work in his people to be so visible that the surrounding nations are astonished and know that only the God of Israel can do such a great thing.
The seal
(2Co 1:21-22 ESV) 21 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, 22 and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
(Eph 1:13-14 ESV) 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
A seal on a jar of wine indicated ownership. A seal on a document indicated the authenticity of the signature and its absolutely binding nature. In ancient times, a seal accomplished many things, but it could accomplish none of those things if it was not visible.
Paul’s metaphor would have been laughable to his readers if the Spirit could only have been discerned using a baptismal certificate. Had that been the case, baptism would be the seal, not the Spirit. (And in many ways, baptism is a seal. It’s just not the only one!) After all, the purpose of a seal is to evidence an abstraction — ownership, authenticity — with something plainly visible and tangible.
Discerning the Spirit
(Rom 8:9-11 ESV) 9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.
Now, it would plainly be a mistake to suppose that all who possess the Spirit may be discerned as such by observation. Some seals are worn thin or covered in dirt. Some are harder to see than others. There can be Christians who are in deep spiritual trouble, in need of repentance, who behave in a worldly manner. No one can tell from observation whether the Spirit has left such a person. But the question ultimately is whether there are some people in whom the Spirit burns so brightly that his presence can’t be denied?
Certainly, it was true during the time of Acts that this was the case. Somehow, Phillip knew that the Samaritans had not yet received the Spirit even after their baptism (Acts 8:15-16). Something led Paul to conclude that the Ephesians had might have not yet received the Spirit (Acts 19:1-3). Recall that Paul asked them whether they’d received the Spirit — not whether they’d been baptized.
Here are a couple of verses to consider:
(1 Cor. 12:3) Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
(1 John 4:2-3a, 15) This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. … If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.
In each of these passages, the writer declares that faith in Jesus demonstrates the presence of the Spirit. Now we have to understand that merely saying the words is not enough — we understand that the speaker must mean the words, too.
The Spirit gives spiritual gifts to all Christians “for the common good” (1 Cor. 12:7). Moreover, the Spirit changes our hearts and thus our behavior —
(Gal. 5:16-25) So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law. …
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
And so we see that the presence of the Spirit is supposed to have an ethical influence — much more than that — it’s supposed to change our hearts and thus our behavior.
Now, undoubtedly, there are people who have never so much as heard of Jesus — idolaters even—who live very moral and upright lives. Mere good deeds do not prove the presence of the Spirit. But deeds done by a person of faith demonstrates a Spirit-filled heart. Isn’t that what the verses plainly say?
Who has the Spirit?
So here’s the question. Those who learn about Methodists, Baptists, and Presbyterians by talking to them about their faith — not by reading tracts and by challenging them to debates — those who actually interact across denominational lines with respect and openness quickly discover that many of our “denominational” friends show as much or more evidence of the Spirit as we do. Indeed, it can be really hard to claim that our hearts are more circumcised by the Spirit than theirs — when we get past stereotypes.
Join a Bible study group with members of other denominations. Attend their Celebrate Recovery sessions and hear them talk about the power of God to change lives and overcome addictions. Pray with them. Take an Emmaus walk. Or just read their books.
It’s awfully hard to contend the C. S. Lewis and David Platt are in part of the dominion of Satan or lack faith and obedience.
And if we truly believe the scriptures, and so believe that God and God alone gives the Spirit, and we see that God’s hard is plainly at work among those baptized in a less-than-optimal way, we have to accept that God’s work reveals God’s will. God’s work in human hearts does not contradict scripture, but God’s work reveals to us the kind of heart we should bring to our Bible study.
That’s faith. You see, real faith is seeing God not only in the pages of Acts but in the pages of the lives all around us. We need only take the trouble to read.
“26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.”
According to this passage, God promised a “new heart” just the same as he pomised a “new spirit”. Do you believe that the two are the same thing, that the spirit is the heart and that the heart is the spirit? Or, are they two new and seperate things that God would give? If so, do Christians have two hearts inside their bodies? And do they get the new heart when they are baptized?
Seems to me that the “new heat and spirit” both imply a new and Godly attitude and disposition to love and obey him.
Otherwise, we are forced to make half of the same verse figurative and the other half of the same verse literal. Not so sure that’s the best way of interpreting that passage.
Jay, the Holy Spirit has bee showing up and doing incredible things in the lives of imperfect people since the dawn of time…He continued during the time of the Early Church Fathers (at least according to their writings). I would imagine that men and women that had a profound effect in the growth of the church were directed and assisted by Him… the Revivals of the 19th and 20th century were surely the result of the Holy Spirit’s involvement… One only has to read about Azuza Street or the Welsh Revival to be amazed.. And, as far as I know God didn’t insist that they attend a CoC to work within them… All He needed was a willing spirit…Reminds me of Cornelius… God saw and took notice of his heart and then directed him to hear the good news and by faith Cornelius was saved and empowered… It will be good to talk to Cornelius one day…
Unfortunately, many in the church today have turned the Person of the Holy Spirit into Holy Spirit “Light”…. As if God CAN’T do anything anymore… It would not surprise me that He would turn away from those that wish to deny Him and that leaves a church without power. Without power and influence …it dies…
Jay, you said:
“Now, undoubtedly, there are people who have never so much as heard of Jesus — idolaters even — who live very moral and upright lives. Mere good deeds do not prove the presence of the Spirit. But deeds done by a person of faith demonstrates a Spirit-filled heart. Isn’t that what the verses plainly say?”
My struggle with this is the reality that some can claim to have faith, but do not truly have the Spirit. For example, Matthew 7:21 comes to mind; “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.”
It seems to me that there are those who can claim faith (says “Lord, Lord”) and do good deeds, thus giving the appearance of a Spirit-filled heart, yet not have the Spirit. Am I to accept as brethren such people with the assumption that they are saved, Spirit-filled people? Simply because they claim faith and do good works? The Matt 7:21 passage also seems to suggest that there are some who could fulfill I Cor 12:3 and I John 4:2-3, and yet not have the Spirit. A very troubling concept for me to understand.
Could you clarify more on this? I believe this is a struggle that many have with such a teaching (verifying the Spirit based upon their works/actions), as we see the notion in scripture that unsaved people will claim to have faith.
This particular avenue of discussion may bear fruit…if the fruits of the Spirit are not externally discernible, then why were they listed?
Kirk… good luck on that one… I figure if a guy says that he believes in Jesus and has a reputation for doing things with a sincere heart, then I NEED to accept him as a brother. Who am I to be able to know the heart of a man ?
Seems to me there is a greater risk in trying to compare his faith to mine.. Whose attitude would be more suspect ? The one who is “doing” or the one who is “judging” ?? We’re both in need of Grace.
Kirk,
Does the Parable of the Tares (Matthew 13) have a bearing on your question?
It is not up to us to eliminate the weeds among the wheat. That task is left to the reaping angels at the end of the age.
Please understand I’m not arguing. I would truly like for there to be a way of discerning a Spirit-filled person other than me and such a person sitting down and comparing our salvation stories against the scriptures to discern whether we both are saved or not.
In my opinion, such a passage claiming that we’ll know them by their claims of belief in Jesus and their works seems fairly hard to utilize. Similar to these passages:
I Jn 3:9-10 – No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
I Jn 5:18 – We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
Are any of you, who are born of God, willing to step up and say that you do not sin, that you cannot sin, or that you’ve never been touched by the evil one since you’ve been born again? I can’t say such things, and I Jn 1:7 makes it clear that born again Christians are still in need of the cleansing power of the blood of Christ.
So, I wonder if these passages that make such bold claims should be read in a certain context. True, those who are filled with the Spirit will produce the fruits of the Spirit. But, it is possible that there are some without the Spirit who will produce like fruit.
Thoughts?
Yes, Jerry, I believe the parable of the tares could have a bearing on this.
Price, the judging factor is also a concern. However, the scriptures do give us the ability to make judgments to a certain extent. So, I’m not fearful of measuring my or anyone else’s salvation against the Word. It’s the only way we can learn how to be saved.
Kirk,
There are people who’ve confessed Jesus, claim to submit to him as Lord, been baptized by the most correct procedure possible who came out of the water damned and Spirit-less, because they entered to water as frauds, intending to dupe the church out of money. (Been there.)
Comparing salvations stories to Acts is no ultimate proof, just as good works and apparent fruit of the Spirit might be charade for some nefarious purpose. Only God can judge hearts perfectly. But the fact that we might make a mistake in judgment — indeed, will inevitably make mistakes — does not mean that we don’t have to make judgments about the salvation of some people.
There are some very good reasons for us to make such judgments, none of which violate the Sermon on the Mount. Indeed, we are commanded to make such judgments —
Obviously, to obey this command we must judge who is an “outsider” and who is not. And we must decide who has so sinned that he must be disfellowshipped (the subject of 1 Cor 5).
The test of whom we disfellowship isn’t about baptism but about the heart. It’s someone in rebellion (Heb 10:26 ff) or who threatens danger to the congregation (I don’t have space or time for details). We disfellowship either to shame the sinner into repentance, to save his soul, or else to protect the church from grave harm.
Speaking as an elder, these are REALLY hard calls to make. But there are times the decision is clear. A member who is guilty of ongoing adultery who refuses to stop, a member who is seducing children into sex acts, and an impenitent thief all have to be removed from the fellowship. Shepherds are called to protect the sheep.
But it’s also true that we can’t obey the countless commands to be united with each other without having some sense of who “each other” is! We routinely treat a sister Church of Christ as composed of fellow Christians even though there may be a few frauds there. At the congregational level, we need not judge every soul of the other church. Just so, we need not conclude that every member of the local Baptist Church is saved to conclude that it’s a sister congregation. We know that the church insists on faith in Jesus and penitence for membership and that it baptizes its converts (imperfectly). Therefore, we treat them as a sister church without having to audit the soul of each member.
All of which is a long way of saying that some of the most important spiritual questions are not black-and-white, rules-based tests. How do I know whether a convert’s faith is genuine? I make the best judgment I can and I baptize him. Who is in danger of falling away and needs a rebuke and who really just needs a hug? I make the best judgment I can. But sometimes, it’s obvious.
Do all saved people radiate the Spirit? No. Do some damned people do a really good job of pretending to have the Spirit? Yes. Does this mean I can never, even discern the Spirit’s presence? No. Sometimes, it’s obvious.
The ultimate test of the Spirit’s presence is a transformation of the believer into the image of Christ. The more servant-hearted, the more self-sacrificial, the more submissive the believer, the more assuredly the Spirit dwells there.
I refuse to be so cynical that — for fear of being fooled — I can never see the Spirit’s work in the lives of believers. Indeed, to develop such an attitude is (quite seriously) to risk blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. After all, Jesus damned the Pharisees because they refused to give credit to the Spirit for the change in a man Jesus had helped!
Do we doubt that the Spirit was somehow involved in the Reformation? Or did that happen by accident? Can we not see the Spirit in the life of Thomas and Alexander Campbell, who baptized thousands, helped break the shackles of creedalism, and whose work brought Jesus to countless American frontier towns? Even though neither was baptized for the remission of sins?
You can’t read C. S. Lewis’s Mere Christianity and take him for an enemy of God, alienated from Christ. He was an Anglican and quite obviously filled with the Spirit.
So, yes, it’s an uncertain thing to judge someone’s salvation, but not so uncertain that we can’t see the Spirit in some people who were not baptized that way I think they should be baptized. Do I deny the evidence of my own eyes — as the Pharisees did — or do I follow the evidence where it leads?
I don’t care to enter the dialogue, but I did want to tell you Jay that this post was very good and helpful. Thank you.
Steve
🙂
Jay, your response was insightful, and gave me thoughts to ponder upon. I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with me/us.
Ephesians 4:4-6 (ESV)
4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call—
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
If it is so that the many different forms of “obeying the gospel” that are found throughout Christianity today all achieve the same thing then why did Paul pen the text above?
There can’t be many different forms of baptism (all for different reasons) and they all still be the “one” baptism.
“There can’t be many different forms of baptism (all for different reasons) and they all still be the “one” baptism.”
EXACTLY!!! How can so many people not see that?! And yet, they still call themselves “believers”. SMH
Jay, be carefjul not to think we are divine. We cannot judge correctly someone’s heart. We are to judge by the fruits. Notice that disfellowship is not over a bad heart, but advert actions. We cannot even tell who’s saved per the Jerry’s reminder of the parable of the tares. Even the lists of qualities for an elder or deacon are actions.
To a large degree, why judge? I have no idea how many Anglicans, Baptists, Methodist, etc. are God’s. The Spirit is invisible, comparable to the wind. The Spirit is only obvious sometimes, like on glowing Moses, Israel elders, or Pentecost apostles or miracles. The fruits of the Spirit are visible by actions. We think we know someone’s heart or glow of the Spirit but we can be fooled.
We should interact with people of other groups more. After all if they wish to please God, they will rejoice in learning of our understanding, and we can learn from them. Even prophets have thought there were no other people of God, and were wrong. (Maybe Alexander Campbell thought that there were always faithful Christians and was wrong.) We are best to only make judgements we must make based on visible actions than to foolishly think no one, or almost everyone is with God.