Intercessory prayer
We in the Churches of Christ don’t often pray for God to forgive others. After all, we teach that forgiveness requires the sinner to pray for forgiveness. Therefore, intercessory prayer is entirely foreign to our way of thinking. And we don’t see the concept often in the Scriptures.
And I’m not sure I see the point of intercessory prayer. I mean, why should I pray that God forgive Br. Jones? Isn’t that between Br. Jones and God? And doesn’t Br. Jones already have both Jesus and the Spirit interceding on his behalf? What could I add to 2/3rds of the Holy Trinity?
And John teaches —
(1Jo 1:7 ESV) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
If a brother is walking in the light, he’s already promised continuous forgiveness. Shouldn’t I be concerned about whether he continues in the light, not whether he’s forgiven?
But we do see some examples of intercessory prayers in the Bible. Abraham petitioned God on behalf of Sodom and Gomorrah —
(Gen 18:32-33 ESV) 32 Then he said, “Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak again but this once. Suppose ten [righteous men] are found there.” He answered, “For the sake of ten I will not destroy it.” 33 And the LORD went his way, when he had finished speaking to Abraham, and Abraham returned to his place.
And God yielded to Abraham’s pleas — not that it made any difference.
And Moses repeatedly interceded on behalf of Israel —
(Exo 32:9-14 ESV) 9 And the LORD said to Moses, “I have seen this people, and behold, it is a stiff-necked people. 10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may burn hot against them and I may consume them, in order that I may make a great nation of you.”
11 But Moses implored the LORD his God and said, “O LORD, why does your wrath burn hot against your people, whom you have brought out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians say, ‘With evil intent did he bring them out, to kill them in the mountains and to consume them from the face of the earth’? Turn from your burning anger and relent from this disaster against your people. 13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, your servants, to whom you swore by your own self, and said to them, ‘I will multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have promised I will give to your offspring, and they shall inherit it forever.'”
14 And the LORD relented from the disaster that he had spoken of bringing on his people.
Now, among the Jews, such brash encounters with God are highly honored. They reveal the wondrous relationship between Abraham and Moses and God — a relationship that allows the human to be completely open and honest, so much so that God yields in response to these pleas.
Jewish thinkers note that for some mysterious reason, God wants us to plead on behalf of sinful people. He says in Ezekiel, “I looked for someone among them who would build up the wall and stand before me in the gap on behalf of the land so I would not have to destroy it, but I found no one.” (Ezekiel 22:30). God does not want us to stand by passively and watch judgment come on others. He wants us to intercede, both telling them to repent and begging God to be merciful.
Lois Tverberg, Walking in the Dust of Rabbi Jesus: How the Jewish Words of Jesus Can Change Your Life
I should add these famous intercessory prayers —
(Luk 23:34 ESV) 34 And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” And they cast lots to divide his garments.
(Act 7:59-60 ESV) 59 And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Jesus and Stephen both interceded on behalf of their murderers — much as Abraham interceded on behalf of Sodom and Gomorrah and Moses interceded for the idolatrous Israelites. Those whom the Bible records as uttering intercessory prayers seem to favor a truly sorry lot!
Now, with that in mind, we can imagine a faithful, truly holy Christian community in Ephesus praying for their enemies, even for the forgiveness of the false teachers.
Now, at first, this makes no sense, for the reasons I said before. But God’s punishment of sin is not limited to the afterlife. God sometimes brings punishment in the here and now — as was true of Sodom and Gomorrah, Israel at the foot of Mt. Sinai, and Jerusalem. We might well ask for God to forgive the Hindus and Muslims who are persecuting God’s church, not because we imagine we can pray the persecutors into heaven, but because we don’t want God to take vengeance against them in this lifetime. We pray for our enemies.
It’s an amazing, very hard thought, but it’s an utterly Christ-like thought.
But for sins that lead to death, well, John’s instructions parallel those given by God to Jeremiah — don’t pray for their forgiveness! Why not? Well, because only those who are at least nominally saved can sin unto death. John is only speaking of sins committed by the saved.
It is, after all, the saved who have God’s special revelation, who know God’s will, and who can therefore most severely sin against it. It’s a huge irony that we become more accountable for God’s law the more we know of God’s law. God gives grace to cover the sins that knowledge of God’s law creates —
(Rom 5:20-21 ESV) 20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
But when we reject God’s salvation by teaching a false Jesus or rebellion against God’s known laws, grace is no longer available and we suffer the full might of God’s wrath — unable to plead ignorance.
(Heb 10:26-31 ESV) 26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Thus, John declares, just as God told Jeremiah, you’re wasting your breath. God’s not going to change his mind. God is not going to put up with those who sin against his known will and who reject his revealed Son. Just as God poured out his wrath on Jerusalem, because the Jews knew better than to worship idols, God will show no mercy to those who turn their backs on his free gift by rebellion or by teaching a false Jesus.
Therefore, rather than imploring God to accept those who worship a false Jesus, implore the worshipers to repent.
Stand in the gate of the Temple. Warn them! Destruction is coming!
Conclusion
Let’s turn back to the text —
(1Jo 5:16-17 ESV) 16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life–to those who commit sins that do not lead to death.
John refers to a sort of intercessory prayer that we don’t find elsewhere in scripture. It’s not for forgiveness of sins against the person praying — not necessarily. It’s not for forgiveness of those outside of Christ. It seems to be for forgiveness of those in Christ — “his brother.”
If by “brother” John means a fellow Christian, then that person is already forgiven by the blood of Christ. In fact, if the sin is not “unto death,” by its very nature, how can prayer rescue someone from jeopardy — when he’s not in jeopardy?
Therefore, I think we’re misreading “he shall ask, and God will give him life.” He’s a brother. His sin is not the sort that leads to death. Therefore, to “give him life” does not mean “give him eternal life” (which he already has) but something like “strengthen and build him up for eternal life.”
That is, if I see a brother err in a moment of weakness, he’s not at risk of damnation but he needs to be built up and encouraged to better resist sin and do better next time he’s tempted. Sin is no trifling matter. Sin always carry a touch of death, and today’s innocent sin can easily become tomorrow’s hard-hearted, willful sin.
(1Jo 3:4 ESV) 4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.
John thus teaches us several important lessons —
1. We should pray for the spiritual walk of each other. Grace covers sins, but there is more spiritual power available to us if we are willing to tap it through prayer. As valuable as forgiveness is, perseverance matters, too. We need encouragement of our brothers to make it to the end, and that is both personal encouragement and strength from our brothers’ prayers.
2. There is a sin that results in death. It’s rebellion against God, a surrender of the repentance with which we began our life with Jesus, as well as giving up the true Christian faith — particularly that Jesus is the incarnate Messiah and Son of God.
3. Faith in a near-Jesus, such as a Jesus who was not incarnated as the Messiah, does not save.
4. There is a sin that leads to death, that is, sin that takes us out of a secure and confident relationship with Jesus toward death. This sin does not damn — yet. But it pushes us toward damnation. It includes any sin that we indulge in aware of its sinfulness, and it includes any rejection of the elements of Christian faith. That is, doubt does not damn. But doubt can give way to a rejection of faith. Doubt leads to death. Rejection of faith is death.
5. For sins that lead to death, we err greatly when we look the other way, relying on God’s grace or rationalizing that the sin is surely not that big a deal. It’s ultimately a lack of love, a refusal to bear the weight of calling friends and brothers to repentance. We’d rather utter a prayer and hope for the best, but John won’t allow us to rationalize.
6. The sin unto death is idolatry. Sometimes we prefer to honor ourselves over God, making ourselves into idols. One evidence of this attitude is a refusal to submit to the scriptures as authoritative. From a Christian, such an attitude is sheer arrogance and a rejection of Jesus as Lord. It’s placing one’s personal philosophy in judgment over God.
Another evidence is an unwillingness to submit to God. When the road gets tough, we prefer ourselves to God’s known will. We say the right words and do the right things until the price is too high, and then we choose ourselves. Again, that’s self-worship and therefore idolatry.
7. Now, it’s easy to imagine that we’re all on the road to death because we all sin. But the correct approach is not to look at the sin so much as the direction of the Christian’s life. If you’re growing, you’re safe, even though you may be very far from maturity (2 Pet 1:8-10).
8. On the other hand, if you’re going backwards, further from Jesus than you were a year ago, you’re indulging in sin that leads to death. Either your faith is growing weaker, or your resistance to intentional sin, or your confidence in God’s promises. Somehow or other, you are spiritually diseased.
9. Sometimes, those in a weak condition right the ship all by themselves, but more often it requires the help of a beloved brother or sister in Christ. It requires action by someone who loves the diseased Christian enough to intervene.
10. As valuable a resource as prayer is, sometimes it’s not enough. Sometimes action is called for. Rebuke and even discipline may well be what our brother needs. That’s not to say that we don’t pray, but that we don’t pretend that prayer is the solution when God is counting on us to do our jobs as loving brothers.
In short, I don’t see 1 John 5:16-17 as a lesson in despair. Quite the opposite. John’s point is that our place in the lives of our brothers in Christ is sometimes to stand in the gate and cry for repentance. Prayer is sometimes not enough. Sometimes we just have to get involved in the lives of our brothers.
Jay, I, not being in agreement with the commenter, who suggested that you use this forum to speak your piece, without letting others respond, and since you are the one to bring up the topic of the “Trinity” I feel it is proper that I be allowed to respond.
Jay, can you not see that this statement, made by you contradicts itself. I believe it is, self contradictory.
“And I’m not sure I see the point of intercessory prayer. I mean, why should I pray that God forgive Br. Jones? Isn’t that between Br. Jones and God? And doesn’t Br. Jones already have both Jesus and the Spirit interceding on his behalf? What could I add to 2/3rds of the Holy Trinity? ”
If God is made up of a trinity of persons, (agreeing as one) The Father, The Son. and the Holy Ghost. why, and to whom, are (as you say) 2/3 of God interceding ?
Let’s look at what Barton W. Stone says about this doctrine, and what I believe is correct.
“The explanation of this doctrine, as given by some, is truly an incomprehensible mystery. They have said, “The Father is of none, neither begotten, nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; and the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.”
A part of this explanation is indeed a mystery, not found in revelation nor reason. We are told by some, that it is an evidence of an humble heart to believe it.
Can any man believe it, whether he be humble or not? [57]
They, who profess to believe nothing without testimony, can not; because the two last propositions are not in the Bible.
They who profess to believe nothing before they understand it, can not.
Therefore it is as incredible as it is incomprehensible.
So it appears to me. But if others receive it as an article of their faith, I judge them not, nor reject them from the arms of charity.” http://www.piney.com/TrinityBStone.html
I am not asking you to explain what Brother Stone said, just that you explain what you said. If Jesus is God and he forgives us, why would there be a need for intercession.?
We often joke that some religious folks can turn any topic into a conversation about water baptism. Well, apparently, that’s not the only religious concept which pops up this way.
I believe if a fight is worth fighting, fight. If not don’t mention it. I have heard another old saying, “if we don’t stand for something, we stand for nothing”
Laymond,
You’ve had the opportunity to state and explain your beliefs on the Trinity at length on more than one occasion. Having made your arguments and asked your questions, it’s time for that discussion to end.
I see no advantage to the readership to continuing the debate.
I’m not declaring your views unworthy of consideration or damning. I’m just saying that the topic has already been covered. The same is true of IM and baptism. It’s not that discussion is theologically improper, but that until someone has something new to say, there is no point in hammering away at the same old argument endlessly.
[I intended this comment to follow Laymond’s last comment, but Jay’s comment complements this one. My comment is from the standpoint of a reader; Jay’s is from the standpoint of the moderator.]
Hear another saying. “If we stand on the natural (flesh), our “something” is really “nothing.”
There definitely is a fight, more like a battle, but it occurs at a great distance away from many of the comments on this site, and this particular thread is starting the same way. It is so much easier to elevate the eternal importance of arguments about words, especially those in which we can transfer the context of previous fights, and demonstrate our similarities to the Greeks on Mars Hill in Athens. Sure, let’s fight about Trinity, and water, and Spirit, and miracle, and “you Progressives,” and other things while we shake our heads over the data of decreasing membership/attendance in Churches of Christ and wonder why and go “duh” instead of seeing any connection. Oh, sure, now make the case of why these are so important to fight about. Let’s fight about the meaning of “duh.” And let’s say it’s those people’s fault.
Jay is addressing a spiritual concept that rises above the fray from fighting one another because we have judged one another because we know what they mean by “duh.” (Or fill in another word – work, grace, saved, baptism … ). Do the people who entertain themselves by arguing (i.e., “defending their opinion” …uh, no, .. I mean … “defending the faith”) even have a clue what Jay is really talking about? The only clue seems to be that they are clueless.
What Jay has addressed in this post is an example of a fight on the front lines of the spiritual battle. It is the fight for people’s souls and for the very life of the body of Christ. The enemy loves it when people deny that a spiritual battle even exists, or say they are fighting it by arguing over DUH. (DUH – Denying an Understanding of the Heavenlies.”
This is where we in the Church of Christ need to grow, but it requires energy to get out of the natural, fleshly, yes- sinful, way of thinking. I used to be that way. “I already know that you’re wrong, so just tell me what you think and I’ll find something wrong with it, because I know it’s in there.”
Jay’s present post, compared to so many comments on this site, are like holes being dug in the ground. The location of posts of spiritual significance are like the foxholes and trenches being dug on the front lines, where the action is, where the enemy is met face to face. The location of those many comments responding from the natural man are like holes that are being dug far from the front lines, a place where the battle has already been decided, a place where people don’t even know there is a battle. That place is called a cemetery. Grave markers bear an inscription, “R.I.P.D.U.H.” He who has ears, may he hear. Otherwise, just say “duh.”
Jay, the point may be as another commenter said, It is great that you bring forth your belief on a subject, (to clarify your point) but restrict others view on the same subject to point out your failings. I didn’t think that to be so until now. but in my opinion, your last comment proves the other commenter’s point.
You don’t play fair. And it is right that it is your blog, and you don’t have to play fair, but don’t pretend that you do. I also know there are needs for rules/laws but they should apply equally to those who make them, as for those for whom they are intended. I never asked you to consider my views, I only asked that you clarify why one part of God would need to interceed to another part of God.
Jay
This may seem a little out of sorts. I as a young Christian hearing of my Grandfathers life, a little wild to say the least, decided to pray in faith for his soul believing time no obstacle for God. I prayed he put his faith in Christ before he died. Soon after without me ever asking I was told by his sister he did in fact put his faith in Christ late in life. I know the possibility exist that God was sharing part of the past with me to give me comfort, but I also believe that God’s limits are the limits He puts on Himself. A God not bound by time is a God not bound by time. Logic tells me that God can do a lot more than I can imagine! Amen
Laymond,
There are studies in both psychology and in brain neurology that show the neuroanatomical pathways correlating with the human behavior of returning to the same reflex way of thinking about something and which then dictates our reaction. These reflexes are preformed memory engrams that have been processed by the cerebral cortex long ago and have been “assigned” to lower brain structures such as the basal ganglia. These engrams are what we instantly think of as a reaction to a stimulus. It is self-trained and it is mentally energy-efficient. Without this function, we would get “brain overload” more often than we already do. The problem comes when we learn something that is erroneous. Behavioral psychology calls that a “bad habit.” We might call it, the work of the flesh or of the sinful man. It is well known that “bad habits are hard to break.” The cortex has to expend energy and retrain the bad habit (sinful) reflex. Actually, most of our un-retrained (unredeemed) reflex thoughts are from the sinful nature, and our initial reaction is to protect them, because it just requires too much work to retrain. But that’s where the power from the Holy Spirit comes into play. That is why God gave us a cerebral cortex to use, the natural sum of which neurologically is cognition, which, superintended with the guidance of the indwelling Holy Spirit, is the mind of Christ (1 Cor. 2).
We all need to pray for the mind of Christ. Laymond, may I suggest you join in that prayer before you post? Or is that “not playing fair?”
Your comments seem to defend natural ideas over and over and over without reflecting an understanding of the spiritual component of the topic. How might this correlate with your opinion about the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit, through which Christ can take up abode within us?
Luke: “I don’t believe it!”
Yoda: “That is why you fail.”
This also relates to the increasing influence of humanistic, post-modern naturalistic thinking that is infiltrating the church discussed on another blog.
theo; I want to thank you for the free psychology lesson, but believe it or not I did pretty well in psych class. I have a grandaughter who has a masters in psychology, if I need help I am pretty sure I could call on her.
Theo, since you were addressing your statement to me , I just took for granted that you were talking about me, but what you said more describes the Liberal CoC or the new church, they have learned things that are not in the bible, and it has been so ingrained/burned as we describe the memory disc in our computer, that it is nearly impossible to get rid of. That only points out that bible believing Christians have a more difficult job than first thought. So if we succumb to the man made liberal thoughts, who will speak for God.
I recall sitting in a small group that had 4 prison inmates who had just accepted the Lordship of Jesus and been baptized. It was such a different situation situation than I had ever experienced… always before, there had been joy and happiness but this time there was concern and worry on the faces of the newly baptized in addition to the joy and happiness. These 4 men knew that even though they had had changed, the rest of the prison had not changed. They knew that they had serious challenges coming their way. So, I prayed for them. I always try to pray for those incarcerated. Many of these men had lived such an outlaw life that lying, for example, is easier than telling the truth. They’ll tell you that they don’t know why they lie… it has just become a part of life for them. So, I pray for them. It is just a fact that their walk with Jesus is more difficult than mine, so I pray for them. We should never just the difficulty or ease of another person walk because we simply don’t have enough information.
Sorry… the last sentence should read: We should never judge the difficulty or ease of another person walk because we simply don’t have enough information.
one question, is it possible that the “sin unto death” actually refers to a physical death? That God might choose to punish his child short of damnation? I would have read that verse in that way until Jay discussed it, I am still not sure that might not also be a valid interpretation of the verse.
I would love your comments.
Doug, it has been shown that once a memory engram has been initially formed, it is not erased. It is always available to come back to, at least in the natural. That is the battle of the Spirit vs the flesh. The flesh is not erased, it is overcome. That is a battle term. Jesus said “I have overcome the world.” We overcome our natural man through the power of Jesus, but Satan is always there, trying to redirect traffic through the old channels. Thank you for praying for these people who are incarcerated. We all have battles, but their battles are great. But they are no longer incarcerated by sin.
Laymond, I have no doubt that you did well in psychology. The problem is that seems to be where you have stopped. I pray your daughter can help you out of your box. God has spoken for Himself. Peace.
Eric’s post brings up an interesting conundrum: as God is not limited to time, has he taken into consideration in the past things which we are only praying about now? No, I don’t have an answer to that.
Eric’s post does remind me of the importance of praying according to the will of God. Not just generally, but specifically. This is not a large issue in the CoC, but in charismatic circles, folks pray for healing, while standing on the general will of God that we be whole. But I think we are to seek the specific will of God for a person or a circumstance and then align our prayers with what He reveals to us. This is a stretch of traditional prayer, which unfortunately tends to ask God for things and perhaps to quote God’s own words back to him in an effort to convince him to give us that which is needed. When we are in the midst of trying to convince God to do something which He has apparently been unwilling to do so far, it is very hard to have faith.
John tells us, “This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.” This clearly implies that God WILL reveal his will to us, so that we can pray accordingly. If not, this teaching is either a sham or a tease. It seems to me that we would be wise to shift our prayer pattern away from, “This is what we think you should do,” to “We seek to know what you are doing, Father, that we might align our wills with yours and see the result in our lives.”
Oh, and I don’t understand who Laymond is “fighting” here. I don’t see that he has any enemies around here. Why would one fight his own brothers?
Sadly, I do have brothers who seem to believe that, “If you don’t fight over it, you don’t really believe in it.” These combative fellows are found to be very tiring, especially by their friends. As the prophet Dave Barry has said,
“I can win any argument, on any topic, against any opponent. People know this, and steer clear of me at parties. Sometimes, as a sign of their great respect, they don’t even invite me.”
Laymond,
Neither I nor anyone else has any obligation to answer all questions posted here – especially when the question is on a subject I’ve politely asked you not to bring up.
I’m placing you on moderation because you’ve repeatedly refused to limit your comments per my request. I will therefore limit them for you.
You are welcome to continue to comment here, but your comments will not appear until I’ve had a chance to review them. Comments that violate the Site Rules (/site-rules/) may not be posted at all, edited or otherwise.
Moderation is a pain in the neck for me, and I hate doing it. I’ll take you off moderation if you satisfy me of your ability to consistently adhere to the Site Rules. I hope I get to do that.
Charles
I like what you had to say about praying according to God’s will. I gather from scripture God desires that none should perish. The question you pose about weather God acted in the past in response to the prayers of today is one I would have fun exploring. For instance the saints that intercede in revelation before God. Are they outside of time because they are before God? If so do they see past, present and future as one complete event in need of prayer to effect a more perfect outcome. Here is another interesting question. When Jesus went up on the mountain and Moses was there, was that the Moses that had went up the Mountain in the desert hundreds of years earlier. That would have given Moses a great perspective.
Whether or not “give life” means to forgive sins, or to strenghthen the sinning brother, the situation would seem to boil down to final salvation of one with weak faith by the stronger faith of another. My first reaction on seriously considering I John 5;16-17 was “God can’t do that; it is our own faith that saves us; not someone else’s.” I have since decided to let God do what he wants to do. I have also decided that perhaps I shouldn’t be so much more “Protestant” than was the apostle John.