I’ll be teaching three consecutive classes at the Tulsa Workshop (Lord willing). These will be at 2:00, 3:00, and 4:00 on Friday, March 23 in classroom CP#2.
The Workshop is free to all comers, and held at the Tulsa EXPO (Tulsa Fair Grounds).
I was only allowed to list a single topic, which is “What God Wants Most from Elders.” My intention is to cover that topic in the first hour.
In the second, I want to talk about the loss of our young people. Studies show that we’re losing an astonishing percentage of our teenagers once they leave home. One solution that’s been suggested is for the church to become more like family, that is, to do multi-generational ministry. We’ll discuss the idea.
In the third hour, I intend to take questions about nearly anything.
In preparation for the first and third sessions, I have two questions for the readers:
1. What does God most want from elders? Church growth? Conversions? What?
3. If you’re planning to be at the Workshop, what other questions could I address that would be helpful to you in your ministry as an elder?
What does God want most from elders?
Christlike shepherding.
Ezekiel 34 pretty much spells out what God wants from elders, IMO.
Paul uses himself as a model of what elders should do, in Acts 20.
I think that God wants Elders to really know their sheep. If they don’t know their sheep they cannot lead them. If they don’t know them their sheep will not follow them.
Jay;
I wish I could be there to hear your sessions. Will they be on I-Tunes? (I just recently learned that the Freed-Hardeman lectures are there.)
As to your topics:
The greatest problem I see limiting the effectiveness of elders is a lack of accountability among men serving as elders. Elders tend to put up with ungodly behavior from among their own number that they would never tolerate from others. This, in turn, undercuts their credibility with the members of the church. Another major problem is the church staff (preachers, youth ministers, etc.) working around or against the elders. Interestingly, the first problem is often used as an excuse for the second.
As to youth leaving the church, I believe it comes from a failure to convert our young people. We initiate them into the congregation, but fail to really bring them to Christ. The solution is a proper teaching of salvation by grace through faith. This would prevent both legalism on one hand and kool-aid and cookie pablum on the other.
In your final hour of teaching, I would enjoy your perspective on whether the Hokey-Pokey is really what its all about.
GATidwell
Greg
I grow increasingly uncomfortable with a salvation teaching “by grace through faith” – of course that’s Biblical in itself, bit it became “Biblical Phraseology”, a rather meaningless religious headline under which all kinds of wrong assumptions gather.
I rephrased the Keywords of the Gospel recently:
Gospel – A Royal announcement (that’s what it meant in the 1st century). In this case: Jesus is being introduced as the world’s legitimate King (Psalm 2)
A Preacher therefore os a herald (that’s the meaning of the Greek “Kerux”), heralding, proclaiming Christ as King
Christ is not Jesus’s surname but refers to Him as anointed (legitimate, empowered) King
Repentance – Is breaking with old loyalties (darkness, the world, our sinful nature and behavior) in order to surrender to Christ as King
To Believe means to become faithful to Christ and to live by the stadards of His
Kingdom
His Blood is a ransom that bought us free from the rule of Satan and sin so we become His, being sanctified to Him
As we enter His Kingdom He freely forgives us of our past life and cleanses us in baptism, where He also regenerates us through the Spirit so we are empowered to overcome the flesh and live Godly lives.
In this understandig of the Gospel obedience is not something added to faith, nor is it legalistic, but it is the natural expression of believing and accepting Christ as Christ (King). Church therefore becomes a Kingdom community, where the way of the King is lived out as a testimony to a world bound in darkness. Church is not an entertainment center that offers the same activities, music or fun as the world, only with a Christian devotion at the end (typical youth ministry). We are called to call the people out of the world, therefore we must dare to be different. A deeper understanding ofthe Gospel is crucial. Religious phrases won’t do …
Alexander
Alexander;
I completely agree with your emphasis on submission to the lordship of Christ as essential to salvation. (This is the meaning of repentance.)
I refuse to abandon biblical expressions, such as “by grace through faith,” because some false teachers use them in a twisted way.
I am completely supportive of teaching salvation by grace through faith, but we must understand, as taught in Scripture, God’s grace is conditional. Otherwise we will end up with the Universalism that some of our Progressive friends have been promoting in the February issue of New Wineskins.
GATidwell
I would have questions about things peculiar to Elders as distinct from the qualities of good mentors and leaders in general.
For example, when scripture says that the church is to obey the elders, to what is it referring? If elders may bind matters of opinion, what guidance is there regarding the kinds of opinions which should or should not be bound? We are called to obey God even when we don’t understand; to what extent would this extend to elders? Are the answers to these questions purely opinion themselves?
And how does this call for obedience play into Peter’s instruction about Elders “not domineering over” those in their charge (1 Peter 5:3)? How does one recognize this domineering? (In our churches, is it ostracism until people leave “of their own free will,” perhaps?) And by what steps may elders guard against this real temptation?
Or, when Christians “vote with their feet,” who is accountable?
I would also be very interested in the questions Greg has raised, especially regarding elders’ mutual accountability.
Greg,
MP3s will be available for download, and DVDs and CDs can be ordered. http://www.tulsaworkshop.org/Order.html There is no simulcasting via Internet. It looks like they’ll cost $3 apiece.
God be with you Jay. I will look forward to the download.
Guys,
If Christlike-shepherding is God’s number one ambition for elders, then how would we know whether it’s happening? What is the test for Christ-like shepherding?
What’s the test for Christ like shepherding? The result Jay. Judge the shepherds by the health of the flock.
Alexander
Thanks, Jay, for drilling down past the lingo. How do we KNOW that an elder has shepherded well? The best analogy I can think of is that of parenting. How do you KNOW that you have inculcated your values into your children? When they leave home, are they found by others to be honest, trustworthy, diligent, compassionate, generous, thoughtful, loyal? Are they what you were taught to be? There are adjectives aplenty in the NT which describe what the believer is to be and NOT be.
The apple does not fall far from the tree.
“How much of the character of Christ does one see in the people over whom that elder watches?” If I had to boil it down to one sentence, I think this would be it.
Greg, you may be shocked to hear that I agree with you on three problems facing elders and the church. We probably see the solutions very differently, however.
Elders unaccountable? Yes, and Jay and I have disagreed on the effectiveness of a group of elders being accountable solely to one another. I think that’s the prescription for the failures we have already seen. But, since that day when “Thou shalt observe congregational autonomy,” was carved on the back of the tablets with the Ten Commandments, we have been left with no alternative but the “consent of the governed”, another completely un-biblical concept of rule. I have suggested that elders be accountable as individuals to leaders in other congregations, in a sort of network of personal relationships. Most of my CoC friends are horrified by that concept and think it would create a pope before the end of the first week.
Paid church staff end-running the elders? Of course they are! Operational management people ALWAYS find ways around an inert governing board in an effort to “get things done”. Since we hired people to perform the tasks the elders should have been doing, we got exactly what we should have expected. The staff problem is NOT the problem, it’s the symptom.
And I think you are correct in the observation that we have introduced young people to the church, but not to Jesus. But again, this is not really the problem, but a symptom of a more fundamental problem. Since there is no being in Christ outside of their local CoC, we have conflated “church member” and “believer” in sharing our faith. “Got Jesus?” “Faithful member of our church?” One is the other. This is a core belief of the CoC– one it shares with the Roman Catholics, BTW– and it’s not going to change as long as this historic distinctive is in place. When belonging to Jesus is finally recognized as being independent of membership in a local CoC, only then will you see any change.