“The Three Kinds of Churches”

11 Responses to “The Three Kinds of Churches”

1. Larry Cheek says:

   May 27, 2013 at 11:24 pm

   Jay, this was great! Too much of what he said is what I have experienced in visiting churches. One that I did not notice him mentioning is when announcements are being made the speaker is easily understood, singing then the instruments come in so loud that you can hardly hear the leader singing even with the sound system and the only way you can tell if someone nearby is singing you must do some lip reading, then drift from the last stanza directly into prayer led by song leader hardly knowing when the prayer began, instruments again perform a soft background continuing through the amen. Now when it comes time for the sermon all is quiet and you can actually understand the speaker, until another prayer is started then the soft background instruments kick in again, while in the audience you have to strain to hear and concentrate on the message being ask of God. I guess that God can hear so much better than we can and maybe it isn’t important that we are understanding what the prayer leader is asking God for, they surly wouldn’t ask for any thing that we would not want would they? I really have a problem with this method. But, I remember some one in the blog mentioning that they attended a church and there was no musical interlude during the prayers and this silence really distracted their concentration on the prayer. I thought WOW if he was distracted by not hearing background music during the prayers what in the world could hold his concentration during the preachers sermon without background music?
2. Andy says:

   May 28, 2013 at 3:42 am

   It’s easy to be cynical… the harder job is to be constructive, and there was little of that! Credit where it’s due: he mis quotes Vaughan Roberts, True Worship when he says along the lines of “going to church to worship is like making time for breathing”… see http://www.amazon.co.uk/True-Worship-Vaughan-Roberts/dp/1850784450
   OK, I understand that. But culturally we have multiple understandings of worship and we live with the tension. Eg we all know “church isn’t the building it’s the people” but in our culture the buildings are called, guess what… churches!! There is little appreciation for the regular pattern of going to the synagogues and then houses to, guess what… worship together in the NT, and nothing that reflects on OT notions, such as Psalm 122 -“I rejoiced when they said, let us go to the house of the Lord” – the psalms of ascents are all about going to worship.
   So the Julian Smith-esque rant is fine if it has been really thought through. Personally, I enjoy the tension. Yes, Romans 12 – whole life worship. But yes to the act of worship expressed through song…
3. Charles McLean says:

   May 28, 2013 at 8:31 am

   After seven years in the pulpit, I found myself as a worship leader in a charismatic congregation, where, yes, the instruments were sometimes too loud and there was a habit of playing “background music” as though we were trying to avoid “dead air” in a broadcast. But this began to clash with a maturing worship team who were quickly becoming less music-oriented and more worship-sensitive.

   We started to break the habit of background music one Sunday when we found ourselves in a time of congregational prayer with a real sense of listening for the Lord to speak. The band and I were silent on the podium, in prayer ourselves. After a few moments, I looked up to see the pastor trying to get my attention. He spread his hands, as if to ask, “What are you doing?” I stage-whispered, “I don’t have anything right now.” He then replied, “Well, just play something!”

   To which I stage-whispered back: “Why don’t you just ‘preach something’?”

   This brother and I have been close now for twenty years, but neither of us have forgotten this little conversation, and never again did anyone on that church staff call on the worship leader for music as filler instead of as worship.
4. Monty says:

   May 28, 2013 at 9:39 am

   Great(sad) parody. Should be pretty convicting, surely he touched on a little something for everyone.

   On a side note: I have relatives that were involved(understatement)in the Crossroads/Boston stuff. I attended a Friday night (forget what the called it)college- devo where the guys all sat together and the girls did the same, and the singing(acapella) was out of this world, literally had hairs on my body standing up(not sure what that means), but it was amazing. Never heard anything like it in the mainstream church I was in. This happened perodically whenever my family visited those kinfolk. But this all changed when they went with instrumental worship.It became more of a show(concert with listeners) and the amazing singing(everyone singing with all of their hearts) was gone or if they still did it was drowned out by the band. It was still loud, still highly energetic, they seemed to be enjoying themselves(I don’t think not enjoying it was optional-LOL)but it lost that special-worshipful sense IMO. From an outsider looking in, they lost something that not many churches had, any church of decent size can have a band. I’ve heard very few churches where every member put their all into their praise without the need of anything else.
5. Doug says:

   May 28, 2013 at 11:09 am

   I guess that’s why we have churches with varying worship styles. Some of us like to hear the elderly elder pray his same prayer every Sunday and some of us don’t. But most CofCer’s would certainly be up in arms if a prayer from a prayerbook was read. This despite the fact that the prayerbook prayer had more content than that of the elderly elder. Basically, worship becomes what we are accustomed to… despite our prayer for God to do something new.

   I was at a church where singing was done with instruments when a young women in front of me moved into the aisle and began to dance with the music. Her dance was in no way suggestive or improper and to me it seemed like she couldn’t help but dance. When God puts you in a place where you can’t help but worship Him, it seems to me that you are going to experience true worship.

   “I will dance, I will sing, to be mad for my King, Nothing Lord is hindering the worship in my soul”… Matt Redmon with a nod to King David.
6. Royce Ogle says:

   May 28, 2013 at 2:48 pm

   Great singing, even great singing sans instruments, is not necessarily worship. If you haven’t worshiped since last Sunday, I seriously doubt you will this Sunday. It seems to me that “worship” is graded by how well or how poorly the singing is. That is so far off base it’s just silly.

   Dying to self and delighting in God is the beginning place of worship, not great 4 part harmony.
7. Jerry Cornelson says:

   May 28, 2013 at 4:54 pm

   funny. interesting. but … what does this age, this culture, this world need from God to get their attention?
   I have read that only 5% of the 15-25 age group in USA are in church on Sunday. Somebody may say, “church is not same as spiritual …” and OK; but, this 95%, IMHO, are not spiritual, either?!
   So, more volume will help? probably not. To quote Jesus, “this kind comes out only with prayer and fasting…” Let’s be creative, but not substitute this for substance. In other words, it is the Spirit, not the sparkle.
   I am truly concerned for my children and grandchildren and the world they are inheriting. May God help us.
8. Fox says:

   May 28, 2013 at 11:06 pm

   DO YOU THINK GOD FORGETS HIS NAME?!?!?!

   ^^^ Good stuff right there 🙂

   It was funny. Like most COCers I’ve spent my life in a narrow cross-section of churches, so I don’t identify with all of it personally, but you don’t really have to relate personally to get the humor.

   Thanks for sharing, Jay.
9. Cathy Mullican says:

   May 29, 2013 at 2:11 am

   The “Father” / “Lord” / “God” every third word totally annoys the spit out of me, but I generally won’t say anything, because it’s better that someone’s praying than not. But it makes it hard for me to focus on all the other words!
10. Charles McLean says:

    May 29, 2013 at 7:52 am

    I have read that only 5% of the 15-25 age group in USA are in church on Sunday. Somebody may say, “church is not same as spiritual …” and OK; but, this 95%, IMHO, are not spiritual, either?!

    In the above paragraph, the words “and OK” are the real wake-up call. This age group is now -or was very recently- under the nurture and instruction of the 40-55 age group. What they are, WE built. It is on our watch that it became so apparent to everyone that “church is not the same as spiritual”. We have been in charge of this not-always-so-spiritual “church”. Perhaps we should look to our own house; that is, we should stop examining the young, and fine-tuning our religious marketing to this key demographic and see if we really own anything of value which these young people could buy. When these kids tell us what they see, perhaps we should take an honest look at it ourselves, and try to change the reality instead of the perception. We have reared an entire generation, providing a steady diet of pizza parties and spiritual lassitude, and now we are astonished at the result. We have failed to “pass the torch” mainly because our own flame has settled to a nice inobtrusive flicker– enough to illuminate our familiar ground, but not enough to show anyone else the way, nor enough to set fire to anything else.

    Back in the day, when I was a business consultant, I knew a client was not long for this world if his approach to his business losses was to blame the customers. If he was waiting for other people to change for his business to improve, my plan was to invoice him quickly for my services– while he was still solvent.
11. Mark says:

    May 29, 2013 at 9:17 am

    Someone needs to be taught how to pray. Christ taught people in the model prayer so why can’t we mortals teach how to pray. I have often wanted to issue and subsequently revoke pulpit licenses for things like that and not being able to read when one goes up to read the bible verse of the day.

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