I grew up studying apologetics. Really. Except we called it “Christian evidences” back then.
You see, my dad subscribed to countless magazines covering the creation/evolution controversy, carbon dating, archaeological discoveries, and all sorts of similar things. He read Apologetics Press and John Clayton (who agree about very little), Henry Morris, and many others. And I read all that stuff.
I grew up a “junior scientist” type. I had my mother wake me up early and hold me out of school so I could watch John Glenn’s three-orbit space flight. I watched every Gemini and every Apollo mission until they landed on the moon.
I loved science. My parents foolishly bought me a microscope in the Fourth Grade. I raised mold in my bedroom so I could make slides and look at the slimey stuff close up. Really. (It smelled like a brewery.)
While I was in high school, Batsell Barrett Baxter — the head of the Lipscomb Bible Department and face of the Churches of Christ on the Herald of Truth broadcasts — published I Believe Because . . .: A Study of the Evidence Supporting Christian Faith
By the time I attended Baxter’s class on Christian evidences at Lipscomb, the Christian world had changed, and most of the students — myself included — insisted on young-earth creationism, claiming the earth to be 6,000-years old or so, based on the writings of Henry Morris and others. I personally confronted him on this question in class.
Baxter stalwartly insisted that the early is much older. He pointed out that he’d ridden a donkey down the side of the Grand Canyon and had seen the layers and fossils — and there was no way that what he saw was created by the Flood.
I struggled to reconcile the teachings of young-earth creationists, such as Morris, and my own observations at national parks, such as Baxter had experienced. I’d been to Dinosaur National Monument and saw a giant sea animal’s bones being dug out of the rock.
While I was in high school, a friend and I dug fossils out of an old limestone quarry near our houses. We climbed over the cliffs and chiseled out fossilized corals that looked nothing like modern corrals. The books said they were 65 million years old — and there was no doubt but that the fossils existed.
It was a confusing time, and the faith of many Christians was challenged. Since then, the arguments have become vastly more sophisticated, the science has gotten better (on both sides), and it seemingly takes an expert in physics or biology or such like to even have a discussion.
Why do we who believe believe?
And so I’ve been thinking about how to teach the reality of what we believe about Jesus, God, and the Bible. I mean, how do we “defend the faith” if we don’t want to become scientific and philosophical experts? Think about it.
For those of us who believe, why do we believe? Not “why should we believe?” but in fact why do we really believe? We believe. And so I ask, why?
It’s an important question. I mean, if you believe, you surely believe for some reason. It may not be a reason that will astound the professors and scientists, but it’s a good enough reason for you. And I’d very much like to talk along these lines for a while.
When the question is “Why do you believe?” we must step back and ask: believe what? What is it that Christians believe?
Well, the correct answer is that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Right? I mean, come up front and say that, and we’ll baptize you on the spot.
We’ve never asked anyone coming forward for baptism how old the world is or what year the Exodus occurred — or anything like that.
In fact, we don’t even ask whether God exists. That’s pretty much assumed: if you believe in Jesus as the Son of God, you have to believe in God, too.
But there’s more. Why do you go to church? Because it’s commanded? I sure hope it’s more to you than satisfying some command. I mean, why does the church get so close to our hearts? Why does the success of this congregation mean so much to us? Why do we refuse to leave, even when we get a little mad at the preacher or the elders?
You see, the real claim of Christianity is not merely that God exists or that Jesus is his Son, crucified, buried, and resurrected, but that these first beliefs require us to commit our lives to God, to join together in community to serve God in a certain, special way.
Not only do we gather to worship God, but we form congregations to help build each other up, to teach each other more about God, and to call and send out missionaries. Together we serve the hurting and needy in our communities.
Ultimately, Christianity is not only about God and Jesus but also the church — the body of Christ — and our place in it.
And it’s about our relationship with God, and prayer, petition, meditation, and however else we relate to God and Jesus.
Got that? It’s not just that God created the heavens and the earth; it’s also that he’s formed those who believe in him into a church, encouraged and strengthened by his Spirit, with a mission.
How do we prove that? Most of those here obviously believe it. Why?
There is a sense in which I disagree. In your post, you use the phrase, “these first beliefs require us … to join together in community to serve God”. Use of the word, “require” connotes that this is coerced from outside ourselves. And that’s where I disagree.
If we look at the whole of humanity, it’s pretty obvious that people gather in community for many different shared beliefs and interests. Many much less significant or important than our beliefs about God and Jesus.
Coming together in community, to a large degree, is part of who we are as human beings. It’s human nature … and even something instilled by God.
Thus, if we truly believe what we say we believe, it’s impossible for us not to gather and be together with others who share these beliefs.
We are “driven” to be together, because of what we believe.
I’ve come (anecdotally- not by “scientific study” ) to believe that belief ultimately has its’ seed in relationships. When we have observed and experienced relationships with someone that has the type of faith you describe “we rationalize” the validity of our faith through these other forms of apologetics. I say this from looking at the biographies of people who have “converted” from atheism to Christianity and those who have left Christianity to become atheists. I
I’ve conducted classes where I asked the class to state honestly why they believe and the answers have always boiled down to a positive relationship with a faith-filled and faithful person or people.
There is a world of apologetic resources out there that nobody seems to tap into or talk about. I am glad you are doing this series.
I read many of the same materials as Jay. The pivotal one for me was an early 70’s VBS material by now 21st Century Christian titled, “God’s Wonderful World”. I still have that five lesson booklet.
It’s overarching theme was that the evidence found by the scientific community actually points toward God although many in the scientific community draw a different conclusion. The big bang theory points toward a single starting event to the universe (aka Genesis 1). Earlier theories felt the universe was ever expanding and contracting and thus didn’t have a precise beginning. The evidence used to support the big bang theory actually supports the creation start.
Even the evidence used to develop evolution points to a single creator. The similarities in the animal world from species to species points toward a single artist with a single style (but very creative) which matches the Bible and contradicts the many pluralistic religions in the world.
Having enjoyed math and science in junior high and high school and aspiring to become an engineer (which I did), this VBS material was a tremendously positive influence on me in my early teens when I was deciding to become a Christian.
I wonder what y’all think about this statement:
The best apologetic for Christ is Christ active in his Body.
OR
Experiencing God is a good reason to believe in God.
Of course, this gets in to the possibility of circular logic — i.e., I say I have experienced God, thus there is a God, thus I experience Him.
But, what if there is a God. Would it not stand to reason that we would experience Him? In our culture, I believe the experiential/relational aspect of apologetics is vital.
I believe because I have to… I get mad at God at times, I have doubts and fears, but I have tried living like he did not exist and that was not life. If it is not true, if he is not who he said he was, if his sacrifice was not sufficient, whats the use? Life would have no meaning. I have rebelled and I have obeyed, Life exists in obeying, Joy exists there, Hope exists there. As Peter said “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.” I wish it was deeper than that, but that is as honest as I can state it.
I think the real issue to a serious like this is the issue of doubt that is not talked much about in church. I think the best reason for apologetics is to strengthen the faith of the believer who is having intellectual doubts. How many people have read Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, James Tabor or Bart Ehrman’s books and have serious doubts because the things they brought up have never been addressed in church when there are answers and resources available they don’t know about? And though the recent movie about a college professor requiring his students to prove God does not exist is blown out of proportion, how many of our young people do encounter professors on any kind of campus who know they can plant serious seeds of doubt in the minds of their students because the objections to the Christian faith have never been talked about?
The biggest joke of the Ken Ham and Bill Nye debate was that Ken Ham tried to win the debate just by quoting from the Bible but never given Bill Nye or the other atheists viewers reason to believe in the Bible. Something Bill Nye was able to capitalize on.
Covering apologetics allows people to talk about their doubts. Most people don’t feel like admitting they have serious doubts is allowed to be expressed but the book of Jude says to comfort those with doubts.
You asked why do I believe in Jesus…specifically that he rose from the dead.. I struggled about age 40 on that very thing and asked God to give me something to cement my faith in Jesus with something other than what “uncle Henry” had passed down through the family.. I was quickly lead to Evidence that Demands a Verdict… Couldn’t put it down.. Secular (at least not circular biblical reasoning) evidence to support what was and what is.. Specifically, a four paragraph article written by a guy named Greenleaf, professor at Harvard back in the 1800’s made the difference. It was entitled, “The Apostles Truth.” Nothing has ever made a greater impact on me than this. It was, and is, outstanding.. Highly recommend. Convinced me beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus had risen from the dead. Powerful.
Adam Legler, I have seen people get angry when someone expresses doubt. It is tragic but real. Too often the punishment was a lecture and a demand to read the Bible more. Punishing someone for expressing doubt is a fast way to make an atheist. When you realize that it is safer to internalize that doubt, you do just that. Today, there are fortunately many websites from moderate and liberal Christianity and the atheists from which to get information. Much can be learned from the atheists because they treat younger people as intellectuals. This is frequently missing from Sunday school. Few churches/ministers want to take on a defense of the faith. Some young people think it must be too difficult. I wonder if and how it were taught in seminary.
It would be easy to say that my belief began as a borrowed faith from my parents. After all, they were in control of my upbringing and they required my siblings and I to attend Sunday School classes where faith in God was assumed. I could be characterized as a lemming, following the church crowd to a faith that could not be proven in opposition to evolutionary biology which could be. The problem is that misses the truth of who I was and am, completely.
I was the questioning one in those Sunday School classes, always seeking the why more than my teachers found comfortable. I was, in the most sincere and intellectually honest sense, playing the Devil’s advocate in order to find out how deep the roots of God and theology could take me – to find out if I could truly believe or if it was all just a game superstitious people played to assuage their inner doubts and cover all the bases.
I didn’t want to just know God and accept that His ways are higher than any man’s ways. I wanted to know why God did what the Bible (all those collected books from Genesis to Revelation from so many different authors) said He did. I wanted to make sense of what others seemed to just glom onto as part and parcel of being a good person. I wanted, in some ways very similar to Frank Morrison and Og Mandino and Lee Strobel and Paul Little, to know why I should believe in God in any real, life-impacting way. Why did I need Grandpa-in-the-clouds faith?
So the journey began in earnest in the midst of fierce challenges to Christian faith first encountered in 6th grade science class … at least it did for me. As much as I had ever questioned church things, I was still shocked by the simmering anger with which our biology teacher related Darwinian evolution as the “direct counterpoint to superstitious Christian faith.” She was a wounded person, shaped in many ways by the betrayals she felt when she was first “enlightened” by her college studies in biological evolutionary processes. She brought her scars to class and used them to systematically dismantle any sign of faith in a Creator God, overwhelming students with anger and vitriol whenever any question was asked about the holes in evolutionary theory. Honestly, she reminded me of the long line of Sunday School teachers who had become frustrated with my questions and kept sending me to the principal of Sunday School, the preacher. Just like them she would not tolerate too many questions and frequently sent me to the principal just to get rid of me. And that may have something to do with why I enjoyed asking questions even more with every trip to the School offices. Same as at church.
I read Frank Morrison’s WHO MOVED THE STONE? and Og Mandino’s THE CHRIST COMMISSION with passion, hungry to see what these questioners found. I also read with great enthusiasm James Woodruff’s WHO RULES YOUR LIFE? and found, for the first time in my life, an approach to what Jesus taught that didn’t make following Him out to be something along the lines of a moral guide to how to go along with church people to get along in life within a society dominated by believers. Morrison and Mandino and Woodruff had an impact on my beliefs, but I still wasn’t ready to commit to actually putting my trust in Jesus. What I had already been doing seemed to work well enough without committing to a life-changing Lord.
Few people knew me well enough to talk to me about my faith, or lack of faith, seriously. I kept it that way on purpose. I had learned that asking questions in private was one thing, but asking them where others heard me had consequences. You don’t keep putting your hand into the fire AFTER you get burned! Then I left home and went to college and met some people for whom their faith meant a good deal more than just going along to get along. (And yes, this is a rather judgmental way of viewing it and NOT an honest, in-depth assessment of why others were coming to church – not even my parents … I know … but it IS how I saw things at the time.) My two best friends at college had the guts to challenge me to make a real commitment, one way or the other.
“Decide what you believe,” they said. Oddly, nobody else had ever spoken to me so directly, despite years of questioning and playing church games and getting lectured by a series of preachers who seemed to come and go every 2 to 3 years. Maybe it was because I was contemplating taking steps to end what was becoming a very depressing life. One of my friends even said, “If you are going to end your life, you at least owe it to yourself to know whether dying to yourself and letting Jesus live in you is a viable alternative to all your game-playing and fence-straddling and depression.” Somehow, those words broke through to my heart.
He challenged me to go home ad re-read the gospels. Assess the evidence. Decide whether I wanted to just die, or if following Jesus by losing my life for Him was worth exploring as an alternative. He left it up to me. He just asked that I give Jesus a fair hearing. I do not know if he realized that he had achieved his quest that night. I was still weeks away from making that decision, and only days away from completing my plans and preparations to end my life. He was almost too late, as I left the next day to return home for the break between semesters … or my break with a life I found unbearable. Almost…
I went home and read the gospels. I also picked up a book by Josh McDowell called EVIDENCE THAT DEMANDS A VERDICT and tried to read it. McDowell did not resonate with me at all. So I reread the gospels again. Jesus was becoming more and more fascinating to me. I was finding details and answers to questions I had never asked out loud. I even bought a fifth of whiskey and went to an alley to meet a guy who could sell me something that would put an end to my life without too much more pain … but I left after giving him the whiskey and not buying anything from him. I was in torment, but at least it was a bearable torment and maybe even a hopeful torment.
I still wasn’t talking to anybody about my doubts and questions … but I was seeking answers. At least I had that much purpose in going on with life. And I had decided that, even if I tried out following Jesus and it didn’t work out, I could always go back to that alley because I had earned some favor there when I handed over the bottle and asked for nothing in return.
I reread Morrison and Mandino and the gospels again and then ran across the book by Woodruff again, too. This time, when I read it, it was like it was speaking to me, personally. I returned to college and began going to classes and avoiding my challenging friends. I did not want anyone to coerce a decision out of me before I was ready. In any case, they did not have long to wait because the evidence had done its work and I was falling in love with Jesus of Nazareth.
Jay, I believe because I have weighed the evidence and decided to put my trust where it found a worthy home. I believe because the empty tomb isn’t just empty. I believe because life without God in this world offers nothing worth all the pain and suffering one cannot avoid. I believe because as long as some consider the odds against there being a God, the odds are longer against a world without a Creator. It just doesn’t make scientific sense to believe in purposeless chance evolution that cannot account for human ability to appreciate the beauty and intricacy of this world. Evolution cannot account for me asking “why?” to so many things. God, as He truly is, is happy to hear my questions and almost always has an answer for me. Sometimes I do have to wait a good long while for the answers, but they nearly always have come. And I anticipate that the rest will be answered when I am ready for the answers. The questions are fewer now. And my faith is strong in the Creator God who leads me, and who not only tolerates, but enjoys, me asking Him my questions.
I have more reasons why I believe, but it is God’s love and pursuit of me when I had given up on myself that won my heart. Ed Wharton’s class on Historical Christian Evidences was a great boost when I was at Sunset. His book is still available even if you do not have the time to go and take his class. Jim McGuiggan has also written a terrific book for those who have to see the numbers and facts and figures to weigh against the testimony of Jesus’ impact on this world for the last 2,000 years. I just cannot seem to remember the title right now. So just read everything Jim has written that you can get your hands on. Maybe you’ll find it.
Some have noted that it is a relationship that is at the heart of belief. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn’t. At the heart of why I believe is a relationship with Jesus, the very image and glory of Creator God. It didn’t start there, but that is where I have found any sense I could make of this world and life in it.
Glenn “Grizz” Ziegler
Jay I think it doesn’t matter. Science has a long way to go to catch-up in understanding God’s creation and none of what we may believe can be proven by scripture or science. It is more than enough to me to enjoy His creation and to know he did this for us.
I especially appreciate the testimony of Ziegler! Jay’s remarks are good. Glenn’s answer is superb. He doesn’t in any sense brag. He reveals what has helped him find God. He speaks well of his family and his church family. And of friends (how blessed he was to have good friends). We who claim to be Christians should share his conviction, “At the heart of why I believe is a relationship with Jesus.” It’s JESUS we are called to share with others wherever we go. It’s not even the church. It’s JESUS. And how great is the need for us to love and support one another who share that love.
guys the proof is fulfilled prophecy.period
if u just happen to find 8 statements of god’s word concerning his Son. that were out of His control where he was born for instance, and there are only around 300.
the odds of eight coming about is 10 to the tenth power to the 60 power.
this is like stacking the state of Texas two feet thick with silver dollars marking one at random,putting blindfold on a man, then send him into Texas and the first time he picks up a dollar it is the one that is marked
that i think, is called number theory
then there is that book jay
“GOD AND THE NEW PHYSICS”BY PAUL DAVIES A THEORETICAL PHYSICIST
WHICH IS FULL OF FUN THOUGHTS LIKE THAT.
http://www.icr.org/icr-magazines/
THIS LITTLE DIDDE KEEPS ON TOP OF NEAT SCIENCE STUFF
http://www.icr.org/icr-magazines/
http://www.icr.org/icr-magazines/Evidence for Creation
Evidence for God
Cause and Effect
Everything Has a Cause
The Effect Problem
The Triune Universe
Time, Space, and Matter
The Logical Implications
Design and Purpose
God Caused Beauty
God Caused Justice
God Caused Love
God Caused Meaning
God Caused Order
God Caused Time, Space, and Matter
God Caused Wisdom
Evidence for Truth
Natural Laws
The Foundation of Science Is Absolute Truth
Science Tests Subjective Experience against Absolute Truth
Empirical Science Is Observable
Historical Science Is Based on Assumptions
The Laws of Science Require a Creator
Human Conscience
Knows That Good Is Better Than Evil
Acknowledges a Spiritual Part of Life
Recognizes Man’s Authority over Animals and Earth
Desire for Justice
Equal Justice Requires Universal Laws
Just Laws Rely on Truth
Reliable Evidence Is Required
Evidence from Nature
God’s Invisible Things
Nature Reveals God’s Power
Nature Reveals God’s Presence
Nature Reveals God’s Protection
Nature Reveals God’s Provision
Nature Reveals God’s Wisdom
The Earth Is Unique
The Earth Itself
The Sun and Moon
The Miracle of Water
The Miracle of Air
Unique Environment for Life
The Heavens Declare
The Speech of the Day
The Knowledge of the Night
Evidence from Science
The Physical Sciences
The Universe Was Created
The Universe Has a Center
The Universe Was Created Powerfully
The Universe Was Created Recently
The Universe Is Stable
Energy Cannot Naturally Be Created or Destroyed
Available Energy Decreases Over Time
Elements Are Dependable across the Universe
The Solar System Must Have Been Created
The Earth Was Uniquely Created
Earth Was Created for Life
Earth Was Created in a Wonderful Location
Earth’s Core Was Created to Protect Life
Earth’s Water Cycle Protects and Provides
Branches of Physical Science
Astronomy
Chemistry
Physics
Radiometric Dating
The Earth Sciences
Geological Processes Were Catastrophic
Global Catastrophic Model
Worldwide Catastrophic Evidence Is Everywhere
The Global Flood Is the Key to the Past
Much Evidence Exists for a Worldwide Flood
Geological Evidence Indicates Rapid Formation
Fossils Reflect Life’s Original Diversity
Fossils Show Rapid and Catastrophic Burial
Fossils Are Found at All Levels
Fossils Show Stasis and No Transitional Forms
Men and Dinosaurs Coexisted
Many Earth Clocks Indicate Recent Creation
Diamonds and Strata Have Too Much Carbon 14
Minerals Have Too Much Helium
The Sea Does Not Have Enough Minerals
Branches of Earth Science
Fossils
Geology
Meteorology
Oceanography
The Life Sciences
All Life Systems Were Created by God
DNA Was Created as a Reservoir for the Information of Life
Proteins Were Created to Catalyze the Reactions of Life
Cells Protect Life Systems
God’s Design Is an Engineering Wonder
Only God Could Have Made Cells
Life Was Created Fully Functional
Variation Is Limited within Kinds
The Natural Direction of Life Is Degeneration, Not Evolution
Living Creatures Were Clearly Designed
Living Creatures Were Equipped to Adapt
Man Was Created by God
Man Was Recently and Miraculously Created in the Image of God
All People Descended Recently from a Single Family
Humans Are Stewards with Purpose and Accountability
Man Was Created Distinct from Apes
Biological Clocks Indicate Recent Creation
Mutational Buildup Indicates Living Populations Are Young
Living Fossils Display No Signs of Evolution’s Long Ages
Fresh Tissues Show That Fossils Are Recent
Branches of Life Science
Anatomy and Physiology
Botany
Evolutionary Biology
Genetics
Zoology
Evidence from Scripture
Authentic Text
The Manuscripts
The Message
Accurate Data
Historical Accuracy
Genesis Is Historically True
Creation Was 24/6 and Recent
Plants and Animals Are Distinct
Sin Caused Death
The Flood Was Global
Biblical Data Are Historically Testable
Scientific Accuracy
Grizz,
Thanks very much for your testimony.
Whether the universe is young or old is inconsequential to me. God made it either way. He apparently formed Adam as a full grown man, not a baby. He could easily have formed a full grown universe. What he did create is marvelous and staggering regardless.
Grizz – thanks for sharing that. Your story is powerful.
Everyone,
If you find value in what I wrote, please feel free to share it. It is very personal, but it is also a gift received from God just to have experienced it. We need to have more of this kind of thing, this testimony. Nothing encourages like knowing God is at work among us. I believe we can do more than we have with this sharing of testimonies. The early church certainly did.
Jay, the thanks truly goes to you. You asked why we believe. That is a powerful question and we need to hear one another’s answers. We would know a lot more about what we do that is working if we all shared the answer to that question. And I have certainly gained from all those who have shared … both before and after I wrote.
Don’t hold back. God didn’t give you a treasure just to have you hide it. And it doesn’t have to seem powerful to you. You might even feel a bit embarrassed about where you were when you first felt the touch of the master’s hand. Get over it. Someone else stands where you were and needs a glimmer of hope. Give it to them.
With a love that is fresher today than when I first found it,
Glenn “Grizz” Ziegler
I don’t have an ax to grind about the age of the universe. As I understand it there are pro’s and con’s for both sides scientifically speaking. But, what I seem to see in some, is a desire to make the Biblical account fit science, as if science rules the day, but really it’s not even science but the interpretation of the scientific data. We may look at the Grand Canyon and we make assumptions about what we see and why it is the way it is, but it doesn’t mean we have come up with the right answer.
There are numerous accounts of coal miners and other people busting open large chunks of coal supposedly dated hundreds of millions of years old and finding human artifacts that note a high degree of intelligence. Obviously something is going on that science cannot explain, so they come up with some bizarre explanations that would make someone defending young earth theory as much more reasonable than their answers. Science does have it’s problems, or rather not science but the interpretation of the science.
If I get to Heaven and find out the Earth was billions of years old, I’ll just say, “well what do you know?” But one has to admit that the scriptures sure seem to go out of their way to say that creation took place in 6 days, and not over eons of time. People in the different scientific fields have doubted the reliability of the scriptures many times in the past and have always came out on the wrong side (This person never existed the Bible speaks of – or this city never existed and such). I suspect it is wrong on the age of the earth, but like so many other things in scripture it really is a matter of faith.
Moses only gave a brief description of the age of man if in fact he was the recipient of the
apocalyptic vision. Whether by translation error or design Genesis offers conflicting and
tantalizing images of man and woman in utopia. I see it as somewhat figurative with a
foundation of hard reality. God is under no ultimatum to explain himself, it’s our natural
curiosity to question the record, to seek a balance of reason and infinite mystery.
Our preacher can only process a 6 day creation while I have no problem with an ancient
geologically-correct earth. Ancient of Days, Alpha and Omega. These terms suggest to
me a limitless Spirit involved with much more than a single planet with a 6000 year old
lifespan.
My question concerning the length of time of creation involves plants. It appears to me that all plants are interconnected to the duration of light and darkness (of course God identified one session of light and one session of darkness as one day. Plants are governed by even the length of light or darkness, evidently they also recognize the proper time to produce fruit or to prepare for a different season, spring, summer, fall, and winter. God also at the completion of creating plants in one session that he called day. He ceased creating and identified that all was good, after six of his identified days. If the plants were complete then, could they have continued to live in an environment that evolved greater lengths of time for light and darkness? Is there anything among the living creation which would survive the amount of extended time for daylight and darkness that some express made up a day? If plants could not exist how could animals which fed on plants survive?
In response to the initial question, “Why?” I am reminded of 2 Tim 1:12, which does not say, “I know what I have believed,” but “I know whom I have believed.” I’ve always loved the chorus from that Whittle hymn.
The distinction is cataclysmic.
Disclaimer: I am not a Christian.