[This is a little long. Anyway, it all leads to a question at the end and, I hope, demonstrates the importance of remembering the historical narrative of the Scriptures as we seek to interpret them.]
In comments, long-time reader Hank and I have been trading theories about the salvation of the Gentiles before Jesus. Hank’s theory is agreed with by a few commenters, including one of my favorites —
This is good news to believers because we rightly worry about the fate of the great masses of human beings, from creation’s beginning until now—the great majority of the human race—who have never been reached with God’s promise to Abraham’s progeny and to Christ’s Church. Will these “left behind” have any chance? Yes, says Matthew 25, by accepting Jesus’ proxies, hurting people; and yes, adds John 5 now, by living good lives. But John’s Gospel (with the entire New Testament corpus) is convinced that such living is possible only by trusting God’s Self-Revelation—who has come just now to a small portion of the world, in person, in Jesus Christ (see the Prologue).
Frederick Dale Bruner, The Gospel of John: A Commentary, commenting on John 5:28-29. Most commentators ignore the question (and it’s not an easy one). And so I’m not picking on Hank. One of the best agrees with him — which has forced me to think very hard about his questions — and I really do enjoy thinking very hard about the Bible.
(John 5:25-29 ESV) “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.”
As you can see, the idea that Gentiles with no special revelation of God (such as the Scriptures) might be saved by virtue of their good works sounds a whole lot like the Available Light theories popular among many, including many in the Churches of Christ. The difference is that this is Available Light applied to Gentiles pre-Christ.
Thus, in John 5:28, “all” is taken literally to mean that all the dead, pre- and post-Christ, will be judged on the basis of this standard — and that some Gentiles will pass the test and be saved without the Law of Moses or Jesus.
Now, while worrying about the eternal fate of those so long dead seems as irrelevant as it gets, the principles underlying the question are actually very relevant. I hope to show that as we go.
I see six problems with this theory —
First, as Bruner admits salvation is only by faith. How can we expect Gentiles who’ve never heard of YHWH, Moses, or Jesus to have anything remotely resembling faith? And why didn’t Paul and the other apostles run into any of these already-saved people in their missionary work?
I, along with Ray Vander Laan, believe the Jews pre-Jesus were saved by faith in the Messiah yet to come — that is, God’s covenant promises (including especially the Messiah). This view unites the faith of Abraham with the faith of Christians — which Paul unites in Romans 4 and Galatians 3.
So how would a Gentile unaware of God’s promises have a faith that saves? There were a few Gentiles who, through contact with the Jews, came to faith. Of course. But for Gentiles, pre-Pentecost, completely unaware of God’s promises given through Abraham and his descendants, where is the promise of salvation? (DON’T TUNE ME OUT. I’M NOT SAYING THEY WERE DAMNED; JUST THAT THEY WEREN’T SAVED.)
Second, the Scriptures are clear that the availability of grace for the Gentiles through Jesus was a secret hidden until the time of Jesus (1 Cor 2:6-9; Rom 16:25-26; Eph 3:5,9; Col 1:26). Since it was hidden, it hardly makes sense to imagine that Gentiles could have discovered it.
Third, I can’t recommend too strongly N. T. Wright’s How God Became King: The Forgotten Story of the Gospels
Notice what Peter and Paul say happened through Jesus —
(1 Pet 3:21–22 ESV) 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.
(Eph 1:20–21 ESV) 20 [God] raised [Jesus] from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
Before Jesus, most of the world was in subjection to false gods — Paul calls them demons. Other than the Jews and very few God fearers among the Gentiles, the vast majority of the world worshiped Baal, Molech, Zeus, and other such deities. God has always been, of course, the Lord of lords, Lord of Hosts, God Almighty, but his reign was largely limited to Israel.
After all, in order for the spiritual powers to be subjected to God in Christ, before Christ, they weren’t yet subjected. It’s not that God wasn’t more powerful, but that he had not yet extended his rule over all the earth.
Or as Paul explained it on Mars Hill,
(Acts 17:29–31 ESV) 29 “Being then God’s offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. 30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”
God tolerated idolatry for centuries, overlooking mankind’s ignorance of God, but no more. Now things have changed — by the power of the resurrection of Jesus.
Or as Paul announced in Lystra —
(Acts 14:16 ESV) In past generations he allowed all the nations to walk in their own ways.
So can God both judge according to works and overlook ignorance? These are obviously contradictory concepts. Exactly contradictory. Plainly, God’s relationship with the Gentiles changed at the resurrection. They moved from forbearance to judgment.
Fourth, to better understand Paul or Jesus, we must ask what is the Old Testament basis for their teaching? Of course, some teachings are truly new — mysteries no longer hidden — but much of what they teach assumes their readers have read the Old Testament, and we miss much of what they are intending to say when we ignore that fact.
John 5:28-29 is part of a passage in which Jesus proclaims himself the “Son of Man” prophesied in Daniel (John 5:27). And so to Daniel we must go.
(Dan 7:13–14 ESV) 13 “I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man,
and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.14 And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him;
his dominion is an everlasting dominion,
which shall not pass away,
and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.”
Now it’s easy to see where Jesus, Paul, and Peter are coming from. In order for all peoples, nations, and language to serve Jesus, their gods must be defeated — and God did this through the resurrection. (We covered this in the Atonement series a while back.)
The same passage describes four beasts, representative of four earthly kingdoms. But in Daniel, kingdoms are possessions of spiritual beings (e.g., Dan 10:10-14). To rule an earthly kingdom, God must defeat its “gods.”
And we need to add such passages as —
(Is 60:12 ESV) For the nation and kingdom
that will not serve you shall perish;
those nations shall be utterly laid waste.
Speaking of the coming Kingdom, Isaiah declares that, unlike in the past, the nations (Gentiles) that do not serve God will be destroyed. Compare Zech 14:9, 17-19.
In short, taken in prophetic and narrative context, Jesus, Paul, and Peter are all saying that God’s relationship with the Gentiles changed at the resurrection. God was enthroned over all rivals, ruling through Jesus — and the Gentiles are welcomed into the Kingdom, but also are also made accountable for whether they serve God.
(Isaiah cannot be speaking of the condition of the Gentiles pre-Kingdom because Paul says God overlooked their ignorance.)
Fifth, Romans confirms this conclusion.
(Rom 5:12–14 ESV) 12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned — 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
“Death” is in the contrast the life given by Jesus. We all physically die, but in Jesus, we don’t die eternally. We will be, like him, resurrected to new life. And so, since “life” means life after death, then “death” means death after death — that is, what the Apocalypse calls the “second death” (Rev 2:11; 20:6, 14; 21:8).
In v. 14, “sinning … not like the transgression of Adam” means sinning against moral, cultural, personal standards — those portions of the Law that even Gentiles know to be matters of right and wrong. Adam sinned against special, direct revelation. Thereafter, nearly all Gentiles sinned against general revelation. And as a result, they did not receive eternal life. They died — forever, never to be raised again.
(Rom 5:18–19 ESV) 18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. 19 For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.
Again, Paul is plain that “all men” receive condemnation. Obviously, “all” doesn’t mean all, or else no one would be saved at all. Paul is referring to Gentiles before the resurrection.
(Rom 5:20–21 ESV) 20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Again, “righteousness” in v. 21 refers to God’s covenant faithfulness. “Law” means the Law of Moses, and this special, direct revelation of God’s will made Israel more accountable. They knew God’s will that much better and so found themselves even more unable to obey. But God covered their sin by grace, just as he covers the sins of Christians by his grace. There is no mention of grace for others — not yet.
Now, Paul had just finished an extended discussion of faith and works in chapter 4, and he assumes that we still remember this lesson:
(Rom 4:13–14 ESV) 13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.
Moreover, we tend to overlook —
(Rom 2:12 ESV) For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.
— and —
(Rom 3:21–26 ESV) 21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Ah … Paul again says that the rules have changed. God used to overlook the sins of Gentiles without the Law, but no more.
Sixth, but it would be contrary to God’s nature to give eternal bliss to sinful Gentiles who were truly wicked. “Overlooked” sins in Acts 17:30 does not mean “saved into eternal bliss regardless of how wicked.” We can only reach that conclusion if we assume that the only choices are heaven and hell.
But what Paul promised pre-resurrection Gentiles was death, in Romans 5, which obviously makes heaven impossible. And yet overlooking their sins makes hell impossible. And this only leaves death without punishment.
In short, I conclude that Gentiles who died pre-resurrection simply died — and received neither punishment nor reward. And this is not some terrible outcome for these poor souls. After all, what they deserved was punishment — as is true of us all.
In fact, when we grieve over what is, in fact, mercy, we cheapen grace — speaking as though we might deserve it. In fact, when we declare that those without Jesus just might deserve salvation on their merits, we are implicitly saying the same thing about ourselves. I mean, if a stranger to Jesus can live well enough to earn heaven, why not a child of God? And this is one reason I disagree with this kind of teaching.
Finally, this is one of many reasons that I teach conditionalism, that is, that hell is finite and just; not eternal and severely disproportionate to sins committed. I believe that God cannot be less than just — and also that grace comes only through Jesus. And the new heavens and new earth will only be populated by those who have received the Spirit by faith in Jesus.
Oh, and finally finally, here’s a question to ponder: In Acts 17:30, when is “now”? Is “now” when Jesus was resurrected? Or is it when Paul preached the gospel?
(Acts 17:30–31 ESV) 30 “The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”
And when is “commands”? Pentecost? Or when Paul preached repentance? (“Commands” is a word used of royal commands, and is present indicative active in the Greek, indicating continuous action: “is commanding.”)
I really don’t know.
Jay,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I must admit, I don’t believe I had ever heard of the position that argued that the pre Christ Gentiles all just died, never to be raised again. No resurrection, no judgment, no reward, no condemnation. Is that what you really believe? On a side note, I’d be curious to know how long you’ve believed that and how many other past scholars (particularly of the CoC stripe, that took that position). Again, I truly never heard of an idea.
I will have to reread your thoughts again (and again after that) in order to give the idea a fair look, bit in the meantime, I have some other questions. Keep in mind, and not that it ultimately matters much (in terms of ones belief regarding the lot if the ancient Gentiles), but I am totally willing and ready to believe whatever it is that makes the most Biblical sense. Both on thus question and any others. I have had to leave previous positions for more more accurate ones in the past, just as you have done from time to time. Having said that, here are my initial questions:
1. I assume that when Nineveh repented at Jonah and was spared, you must understand that to be from a purely physical and worldly standpoint, right? But, what about MAT12.41 — The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
in what sense will Nineveh “rise in judgment”? Like the queen of the south, won’t they “rise up in the judgment with this generation”? What does that mean? How will they all rise at the judgment if they are, as you say, “dead forever, never to be raised again”?
2. ROM2.26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
How, in what sense, could the uncircumcision (the Gentiles) “keep the righteousness of the law”? How could they (the Gentiles), “fufil the law”? How could a Gentile be considered a Jew “inwardly, and be considered “circucused in heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter”?
3. JHN10.16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Who were the “other sheep” that were “not of this fold”?
4. JHN11.52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
Who were the “children of God” who were not of “that nation”? Doesn’t “that nation” refer to Israel?
5. ACT10.34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
What does “accepted with him” mean? Doesn’t it mean “saved”? It it simple meant “acceptable TO BE saved”, then wouldn’t that mean that most men were not allowed to be saved, no matter what? Can “whoever fears God and does good is accepted with him” really mean – “unsaved/unforgiven”?
Those are my first thoughts here. I will chew on what you write some more and see if I can better understand your position. I would like to know who else believed and/or believes as you on this, and read what they have/had to say.
Hey brother,
I appear to already be in limbo/duplicate comment mode with my first reply, lol.
Two things – one sorry for the many typos if/when my privious comment lands, I’m really not THAT dumb, was just carless on my small phone.
Two – would you position mean that ALL Gentiles ended up the same? Whether they were mostly kind, grateful, generous and loving OR hateful, thrives, ungrateful and abusive to others? They all just equally died and ceased to ever live again? One, the same as the other?
Jay, it takes a lot of tortured reasoning to sort out your three categories: the saved, those who are punished in hell and are then annihilated, and those who are simply annihilated. I’m not aware of any single passage of Scripture that sets forth this tripartite outcome for humankind. In contrast, for Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:22 the outcome for all of God’s children through Adam is stated simply and powerfully: “For as in Adam all die so in Christ shall all be made alive.” Eventual universal salvation for all created in God’s image is the elephant in the room for conservative Christianity. It can be ignored with much effort but it is still plainly there.
I see a problem with supposing all who have never heard of Jesus being condemned to Hell. Many people even outside of Christ are not wicked, but instead are loving and thoughtful and kind. We are encouraged to carry everywhere in the world the good news that Jesus lives and offers salvation to those who hear and obey the gospel.
Can it be that SOME who have not yet heard of Jesus do love God and seek to serve Him? And if so, will they be treated the same as those who are hateful and have no respect for God? I fret because our translators capitalize the word “spirit” everywhere they see it, it seems, when quite obviously sometimes it’s referring to the human spirit. One such place is Paul’s listing of fruit of “the spirit.” Some PEOPLE evidence that fruit who have never heard of Jesus or who may be caught up in religions other than the Way of Christ.
There’s no question that we should carry with us everywhere the good news about JESUS. But to suppose that everyone, both the good and the bad, who never heard of Jesus will be treated by God exactly alike is not certain.
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Ray,
Remember that the word if God declares in ACT 17:30, that “The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”
While there certainly was a time wherein God overlooked the ignorance (lack of knowledge) in people who were not taught the specific word and will of God, those times are over. They were over back in Acts 17, when Paul first preached as much.
There used to be a law for the Jews and a separate law for the Gentiles. There used to be “two folds” if God’s children/sheep. Today there is only one law, one fold, and one shepherd. The one fold today is the church, the one body of the saved.
Today, their is simply no salvation outside of Christ.
I’m so glad for being born of parents that lived in a place where the story of Jesus was taught.
I feel sorry for all those 95% of the people born here on earth in other places and never heard of Jesus and of other religions that have it wrong that will burn in hell.
It makes one wonder if God creates our spirit and puts it in a human body why would he create one knowing in advance it had no chance of salvation by knowledge of Jesus? Sad that that person was created to live here on earth but ultimately burn forever.
Is that a God we can love?
That was the teaching we grew up hearing. Anyone question why so many have left and are leaving that God loses and the devil wins teaching?
Throughout history there have been those, most of those that lived believed there was a God and through that faith worshiped Him in various ways but always in love.
Paul wrote of that faith in his letter to the Galatians in verses we all know well from the 5th chapter specifically the 6th verse.
‘For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.”
So many who have lived worshiped God, looked up and prayed as best they understood God by faith which they had in abundance and from that they had love for God. Called by many names, but still God as there is but one.
Faith in and love for God, they had it and it was enough.
C.S. Lewis believed that any sincere worship offered to a deity was ultimately counted as worship to the true God.
“A am the way, the truth and the light. No one comes to the Father, but through me.” This would appear to say that the only way to heaven is through Christ, and it is usually assumed that to not to go to heaven leaves but hell. I am unfamiliar with a third option. Even the people of Ninevah knew of God and when aked to repent they did, but were they not really in trouble of condemnation? How much of God did they need to know or understand? The problem is that we are asking a lot of questions and making assumptions based on little scripture and God not telling us. We can assume many things, but we shouldn’t make diecisions based on assumptions. When Paul came to the Gentiles and they were worshippin the “unkown God” Paul declared that YHWH was the “unknown God”, but only because he was the one God they didn’t know about, but he also made them understand that this was the one and only living God who was capable of saving them. We can speculate about pre-NT gentiles vs post-Nt gentiles, but in the end only God knows the fate of them…or even us and we are still living, so we need to still be concerned about us. We cannot help them, but we can help us.
There is no in between, there is either eternal life or eternal damnation. The gospel isn’t something that couldn’t be known. It’s not better to have not heard the gospel so you are not eternally damned, so don’t preach the gospel, they have no punishment but they just die since God never revealed Himself to them.
Ephesians 2:11-13 Don’t forget that you are Gentiles. In fact, you used to be called uncircumcised by those who take pride in being circumcised. At that time you did not know about Christ. You were foreigners to the people of Israel, and you had no part in the promises that God had made to them. You were living in this world without hope and without God, and you were far from God. But Christ offered his life’s blood as a sacrifice and brought you near God.
God chose the Jewish people to tell about Him. God told Moses that the purpose of delivering Israel was that He would show His power, and that His name would be declared in all the earth.
Exodus 9:16, But indeed for this purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.
Psalm 117:1 Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles! Laud Him, all you peoples!
Any of the Gentiles could see through Israel that there is a true God, and turn to Him in faith to the truth He had revealed to them and be saved. Daniel and Nebuchadnezzar (Daniel 3:29; 4:2-3), Daniel and Darius (Daniel 6:26), and Esther and Ahasuerus (Esther 8). Each of these Gentile men exercised authority over an empire, and to each established worship to the true God among his people. Nebuchadnezzar and Darius even issued specific decrees declaring the God of Israel as the one true God of all nations (Daniel 4:1-18; 6:25-27).
God showed Himself to the nations by great wonders through Israel. In this way, the greatest empires the world had ever known, the Egyptian, Assyrian, and Medo-Persian, had the opportunity to know God. This alone would leave all nations “without excuse,” but God did not stop there. He also sent His prophets to them to encourage them to repent. Obadiah was sent to Edom (Obadiah 1:1), Nahum preached in Assyria (Nahum 1:1), Zephaniah prophesied to Canaan and Ethiopia (Zephaniah 2:5,12), and Amos and Ezekiel delivered judgments to the Ammonites, the Phoenicians, the Egyptians, and the Edomites (Amos 1:3-2:3; Ezekiek 25:2; 27:2; 29:2; 35:2) (Jeremiah 46-51).
God had adequately warned all nations of His wrath against sin.
God intended His creation to be an obvious sign of His existence, Psalm 19:1 “The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork.”, yet God has given more than that. God spoke to the Gentiles through dreams, through the example of His people, and through the prophets.
God worked through Israel to tell all nations about His salvation that is only through Him. God always has loved all people, and earnestly has desired that they worship Him. Unfortunately, then, as today, they rejected God. Even in those times of rampant idolatry and ungodliness, there were people from all the nations, men and women who, despite the degraded society around them, chose to worship God.
Whether people lived before or after the death of Christ on the cross, all sinners are saved by grace through faith, regardless of which law they lived under.
Jews and Gentiles have always been saved by His sacrifice through faith in our Lord and Savior, the one and only God of all the earth has revealed Himself to all people and all nations from the beginnings to the ends of the earth.
The Bible doesn’t say it would have been better to not let God be known to the heathen and the unevangelized so that they wouldn’t have to face eternal punishment.
People are lost, not because they are ignorant of God’s law, but because they have sinned against Him. Overlooking or ignoring sin would communicate that an offense against God was not that big of a deal, God does see sin as a huge deal. He demands that sin be punished either by condemning the sinner to hell or by pouring His wrath out for the sinner onto Jesus Christ.
Isaiah 13:11 I will punish the world for its evil, And the wicked for their iniquity; I will halt the arrogance of the proud, And will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 In flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.
All who go to the Lake of Fire are there forever, their destruction is everlasting torment.
Revelation 20:6 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be TORMENTED day and night FOREVER AND EVER.
Revelation 20:15 Then Death and Hades were cast into the LAKE OF FIRE. This is the second death.
Luke 16:19-31 There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Then he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.
Then he said, I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment. Abraham said to him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent. But he said to him, If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.
The passage from Revelation isn’t Revelation 20:6 it’s Revelation 20:10.
I posted another comment on here that is not showing. I’m thinking Jay will have to fix it to show, and if it doesn’t come up on here I will post it again.
C.S. Lewis wrote, “There are people in other religions who … belong to Christ without knowing it.”
Mahatma Gandhi wrote:
وفي رأيي أن السياسة التي لا تربط بالدين قذارة محضة يجب تجنبها. إن السياسة ميدانها العمل لخير الأمم، ولذلك يجب أن تشد إليها إهتمام الرجل المتدين. أو بعبارةأخرى، الرجل الذي يسعى وراء الله ووراء الحق. أما بالنسبة إلى ففي رأيي أن الله والحق ، لفظان بديلان، يمكن أن يحل أحدهما مكان الآخر. وإذا قال أحدهم أن الله رب لا يلتزم الحق، أو رب يحب عذاب الناس فإني سأرفض عبادته. لذلك يجب علينا أن نرسى في السياسة أيضا قواعد مملكة الرب
I think it means all men are brothers and go to the same place 😉