We’ve covered instrumental music countless times on this blog, and long-time readers may well be tired of the question. But Col 3:16 is next up for the class I’m teaching, and  this will be a lesson taught in just for one week — if possible. So I have to address the question succinctly.

Let’s see. There are really only about three arguments against the instrument:

1. The meaning of psallo

2. The evidence of early, uninspired Christians

3. The lack of biblical authority …read more

Filed under: Uncategorized  | | 21 Comments »

Do you know of any good churches in the Pittsburgh area? I would definitely be interested in progressive Churches of Christ, though not exclusively.

My wife and I just moved here a few weeks ago, and we’re searching for a group that not only studies and emphasizes scripture, but acts like Christ in the process. (That’s a poor summary of what it is we’re seeking, but hopefully you get the idea.)

I grew up in the NICOC, and now my insurrectionist brothers and I read your blog regularly — and consternate our parents and in-laws with our radicalism. So…thanks!

I’m not familiar with the area, but hopefully the readers can make some suggestions.

Filed under: Uncategorized  | | 1 Comment »

We now have to consider a more biblical understanding of damnation. It damnation isn’t eternal torture, just how bad can it be? Should we still be motivated to seek and save the lost? If the damned will simply be destroyed, why bother?

And what if someone is innocent — like a baby — but not saved. Or nearly innocent, such as someone newly accountable. What will be the fate of such a one?

Separation from God

This question returns us to — …read more

Filed under: Uncategorized  | | 4 Comments »

I suspect I’m pushing the limits of the readers’ patience by continuing to discuss conditional immortality without getting back to the age of accountability question, and so I’ll try to answer the objections recently made in the comments very simply.

In response to an earlier question, I listed several reasons why I consider conditional immortality important enough to take up space here. The reasons I think it’s true are found, of course, in the posts themselves, as well as several earlier posts indexed as the “Surprised by Hell” series.

A reader responded,

Even if you’re right, what other people will and won’t accept as fair should never motivate us to change our views.

Another wrote,

Today’s modern ear cannot hold in tension the great love of God with the wrath of God—so we need to make a small tweak in our eschatology in order to get people to listen and to hear.

And if I was telling people why to change their views, that would make sense. The only reason a reader should change his views is if he’s persuaded that I’ve more correctly interpreted the scriptures than those who disagree.

I really can’t bear the thought that anyone thinks I take this position because I think it’ll improve the marketing of the gospel. (I’m nauseous at the thought.)  I’m sure many people strongly disagree with me, and that’s fine. But please don’t impugn my motives. It’s not right. …read more

Filed under: Uncategorized  | | 7 Comments »

Revelation 6

(Rev 6:9-11 ESV) 9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne.  10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”  11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

This passage suggests the martyrs’ “souls” dwell in heaven awaiting the resurrection. I do not take this to refer to actual souls pleading for actual vengeance. Here are some of the reasons – …read more

Filed under: Uncategorized  | | 7 Comments »

Anonymous and Alexander have weighed in with a series of verses to argue against the position I’ve argued for here.

I’ve spent more time on the conditional immortality argument than I meant to, but I’m not surprised — and I will be getting to the age of accountability issue. But I’ve enjoyed the exchange because since I first covered this position, I’ve learned a lot. My understanding of the topic is now much deeper than when I began — and much of that is due to comments from the readers.

Background material

Edward Fudge maintains a web page with extensive material in support of the conditional immortality viewpoint. He also includes a list of famous biblical scholars who agree with that viewpoint. I would add Patrick Mead and Al Maxey to the list.

Now, before someone fires off a comment about following the Bible rather than men (as though anyone here thinks otherwise), I should say that I reached my conclusion from Bible study — seeking to disprove Fudge. I made most of the same arguments I’m responding to here, and I learned that Fudge’s position fits the scriptures far better than the traditional view.

Now, nothing I teach rejects the reality of an actual hell. I don’t accept the view of N. T. Wright that hell is purely separation from God. It is separation from God, but it’s also an agonizing death. It’s the natural result of God’s purification of the heavens and the earth, which will be by fire. It will just be finite. …read more

Filed under: Uncategorized  | | 13 Comments »

(Rev 3:1-3 ESV) “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: ‘The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. “‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.  2 Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God.  3 Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.”

God don’t make no promises that He don’t keep.
You got some big dreams, baby, but in order to dream you gotta still be asleep.

When you gonna wake up, when you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain?

Counterfeit philosophies have polluted all of your thoughts.
Karl Marx has got ya by the throat, Henry Kissinger’s got you tied up in knots.

When you gonna wake up, when you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain?

You got innocent men in jail, your insane asylums are filled,
You got unrighteous doctors dealing drugs that’ll never cure your ills.

When you gonna wake up, when you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain?

You got men who can’t hold their peace and women who can’t control their tongues,
The rich seduce the poor and the old are seduced by the young.

When you gonna wake up, when you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain?

Adulterers in churches and pornography in the schools,
You got gangsters in power and lawbreakers making rules.

When you gonna wake up, when you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain?

Spiritual advisors and gurus to guide your every move,
Instant inner peace and every step you take has got to be approved.

When you gonna wake up, when you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain?

Do you ever wonder just what God requires?
You think He’s just an errand boy to satisfy your wandering desires.

When you gonna wake up, when you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain?

You can’t take it with you and you know that it’s too worthless to be sold,
They tell you, “Time is money” as if your life was worth its weight in gold.

When you gonna wake up, when you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain?

There’s a Man up on a cross and He’s been crucified.
Do you have any idea why or for who He died?

When you gonna wake up, when you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain?

Filed under: Uncategorized  | | No Comments »

Argument 5: The traditional view of “Where Are the Dead” is Flawed

About 100 years ago, someone published a tract called “Where Are the Dead?” Several denominations were so impressed that they adopted its arguments as their standard position, and many republished the tract. Indeed, it’s standard fare in Church of Christ preacher schools even today.

The gist of the tract’s conclusions is that the dead pass into Hades where they go either to Paradise or Tartarus, pending Judgment, following which the Tartarus residents go to hell and the Paradise residents go to heaven. It’s been said so many times that most people never question the truth of the claims.

Now, there are obviously some problems with this theory – …read more

Filed under: Uncategorized  | | 2 Comments »

Not surprisingly, Alexander has weighed in with another thoughtful, weighty comment regarding Jesus’ story of the Rich Man and Lazarus

(Luk 16:19-31 ESV)  19 “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day.  20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores,  21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores.  22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried,  23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.  24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’  25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish.  26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’  27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father’s house — 28 for I have five brothers — so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’  29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’  30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’  31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”

This is, of course, one of the classic rejoinders to the arguments for conditional immortality — and for good reason. It just doesn’t seem to fit the theory. …read more

Filed under: Uncategorized  | | 18 Comments »

Thanks to reader David P. Himes for finding this.

It reminds me of a quote in the local paper here from several years ago. The reporter did a story on the city’s Unitarian-Universalist congregation. The pastor waxed eloquently about the joys of diversity — Hindu, Christian, atheist, pantheist, Wiccan, whatever — but bemoaned the utter absence of a good Unitarian-Universalist song.

So here’s how you persuade your atheistic friends: the real test of a religion is the quality of its hymnody. A religion with no songs is a religion that doesn’t speak to who we really are.

Filed under: Uncategorized  | | 17 Comments »

Keith Brenton has been recruiting guest editors for Wineskins this year due to Greg Taylor’s one-year sabbatical. The year is nearly over, and so they’ve gotten to the bottom of the barrel and asked me to handle one of the last two issues of 2010. And it’s quite an honor, I suppose, but I just have no clue about a theme for the issue.

I guess we’ve covered such a broad range of topics here, some several times, that I’m just coming up dry. It’s not that I’m out of ideas for One In Jesus, but a daily blog is different. It just is. I can strike out for several posts — and often do — and it’s no big deal. If a monthly magazine strikes out for one issue, it’s an entire month of disappointed readers. And if I do a terrible job here, well I’ve messed up my own blog. Wineskins is not my own, and so the standard has to be a bit higher.

So I’ve been trying to think a little outside the box, you know. But I just run into bigger boxes. I guess I could try coloring outside the lines next, but I think clichés won’t solve the problem. I just don’t feel the urge.

Now, it may be in part this accursed infection thing I’ve been fighting for the last couple of week. The doctors just put me on a different antibiotic — just to be sure. And the Greek for “antibiotic” is “against life” — and that’s how I feel. I don’t do well with antibiotics.

So I’m hoping the readers will have some brilliantly creative ideas for topics for a good progressive church periodical. I mean, I could fill the pages for several years just from existing posts, but that would hardly seem right. I can’t just recycle old material.

And so, dear readers, what topics have not been adequately addressed in the progressive Church of Christ literature or evangelical literature or the Church of Christ literature or whatever? What do you desperately want to hear, learn about, or talk about? (But not so desperate you can’t wait until November or December!)

Filed under: Uncategorized  | | 13 Comments »

Immortality

Immortality is not an inherent element of human life. Rather, immortality is something God gives to those who are faithful –

(1 Tim 6:15-16) which God will bring about in his own time — God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

And Paul certainly says that only God is immortal. The Greek word is athanasia, meaning deathless.

(Rom 2:7) To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

“Immortality” translates aphtharsia, meaning incorruptibility. …read more

Filed under: Uncategorized  | | 4 Comments »

Click on this link to download a PowerPoint presentation, which is today’s lesson.

The Importance of Being Broken

This is the rare post not by me. This one is from my oldest son, Chris, who is part of a church planting group in Boston.

Filed under: Uncategorized  | | 5 Comments »

Lesson 4: At the end of time, heaven comes to earth

The usual teaching is that God will destroy the earth and we’ll all leave to live with God in heaven forever. That’s not really what the Bible says.

(Rev 21:1-4 ESV) Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.  2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.  3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.  4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

Now, “new” is the Greek word kainos, meaning refreshed or renewed or remade. It’s not used of “made from scratch.” And we see heaven descending down to the renewed earth and God coming to live with man — the very opposite of man ascending to heaven to live with God. How did that happen? …read more

Filed under: Uncategorized  | | 21 Comments »

I get emails –

Reading your blog has been very enlightening for me. I grew up in a small Church of Christ  Now I’ve moved back to the area and my wife and I are attending there again. It is the only Church of Christ in town. The church isn’t non-institutional or 1 cup, but it appears to be pretty conservative. I know growing up I was taught about how the Church of Christ was the only true church.

The preacher has been teaching the adult class on the theme of “What is the church”. This last week our lesson included the question “Are there Christians in the denominations? Explain your answer” It was the last question of the lesson and the preacher said we’d continue our discussion next Sunday. Before the class came to an end, I said I thought there were probably people who belonged to the universal church that attended the Baptist church across the street. Some other responses were that denominations can’t be part of the true church since they’ve divided themselves from the church, as long as people are worshiping correctly then they are in the church, and that the question isn’t whether there are members of the Church of Christ who attend another service, but whether denominations are Christian.

I’m not sure what I should say when I go to class next Sunday. I believe that the Church of Christ gets it right in most cases of doctrine, but that others can view things differently and that God’s grace will cover either of us when we make a doctrinal error. How would you answer the question?

Thanks for your time and your blog. …read more

Filed under: Uncategorized  | | 194 Comments »

Alexander has posted several objections to my understanding of conditional immortality. As always, Alexander’s concerns are thought provoking and weighty. I’ll work through them one at a time.

Are the lost resurreccted bodily as well? I see no reason why not:

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment.
Is there any “physical” difference between the two resurrections? No. Both groups rise from their graves => the resurrection is a bodily resurrection both for the saved and the lost.

Indeed, the damned are resurrected — but not to immortality. Rather, they die the second death following judgment. They willl typically die very painfully — but their punishment will be proportional to their wickedness. I’ll cover the proportionality question in a future post. The gist of it is that the damned will be destroyed and die, but most will die painfully and yet justly. God will be who he is, and he is a just God. …read more

Filed under: Uncategorized  | | 5 Comments »

In considering the age of accountability, we have to include in our thinking the doctrine of “conditional immortality.” This is the plain teaching of scripture that the saved will be given immortality and the damned will not. Rather, they will suffer destruction and death, with the amount of pain and duration of their suffering proportional to their guilt before God.

What I just said, of course, completely contradicts over a thousand years of church dogma, but it doesn’t contradict the Bible. I covered this in detail in the Surprised by Hell series a while back. So I apologize to long-time readers. I really have to cover this again. (But then, I’ve got some new material to add!) And I apologize to new readers. I really don’t want to repeat the entire series. I’ll cover the highlights, and if you want to go deeper, follow the link.

Now, I have to give credit where credit is due. I’ve been instructed by N. T. Wright in his Surprised by Hope: Rethinking Heaven, the Resurrection, and the Mission of the Church and by Edward Fudge in his The Fire That Consumes: A Biblical and Historical Study of the Doctrine of Final Punishment. These are both extraordinary books that offer deep insights into the end of the world — and the nature of God — and should be considered required reading. …read more

Filed under: Uncategorized  | | 17 Comments »

I started to post a longish comment in reply to a comment by konastephen. It got too long for the comment section, and I really didn’t manage to stick to the subject. Oh, well.

konastephen,

Yes, “age of reason” is intensely Greek — as though we are saved by our reason. “Age of accountability” is closer to right — but the Jewish Bible speaks of being old enough to know good and evil, alluding to the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden (future post coming on that). Hence, we become accountable when we have the same awareness of God’s will that Adam and Eve had after they ate the fruit of the tree. The test is not of reason but of knowledge of God’s will. …read more

Filed under: Uncategorized  | | 14 Comments »

(Col 2:16 ESV)  16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.

The false teaching Paul preaches against has the ability to destroy God’s kingdom by dividing brother from brother and even brother from God. And the way that happens is through our judging one another on non-Kingdom issues, issues that aren’t about the mission of God.

Evidently, the Jews in Colosse were judging the Gentiles regarding whether they ate kosher foods only and whether they honored the Sabbath and other Jewish holy days. In the Roman world, the Jews used precisely these things to separate themselves from the Gentile, to mark themselves as dedicated to God. These were the signs of a faithful Jew.

In Galatians, Paul declares that seeking salvation through such things is to fall from grace. In Romans 14, Paul commands his readers not to judge one another over such things. Here his command is not let others judge you. And that’s an important element we often forget. …read more

Filed under: Uncategorized  | | 2 Comments »

Thanks to Reverend Fun.

Filed under: Uncategorized  | | 1 Comment »