Moving On Down the Road, Part 2

Sorry that I’ve not been responding to posts and emails lately. We closed on our new house Monday, meaning that I spent the weekend disassembling my computer and library. And since Monday, well, I’ve not been able to find anything — like clothes, hot water, TV, or a wireless network.

But things are returning to normal — in much the same sense that purgatory is normal. It could be worse.

I’m sitting at my desk, listening to TV — listening because the view is blocked by boxes.

The plumber came this morning and fixed the hot water (I took a VERY fast shower this morning!)

I just downloaded 485 emails! So I may be just a tad slow responding. And I missed “House” Tuesday night, so I have to download it — or life just can’t go on. That’s the way it is.

I posted several days ahead, but I’m down to two days worth of material for the first time in forever — so this weekend may be sparse reading. After all, I have to watch UA play Tennessee Saturday night and I have a Sunday school lesson to prepare. And there’s the unpacking thing. My wife is giving me that “get off the computer and help unpack!” look that I expect to see for the next 30 days straight.

So I’ll be back, but there may be a gap for a while. I’m not sick or dead. Just tired from lugging boxes and looking for stuff that doesn’t want to be found.

About Jay F Guin

My name is Jay Guin, and I’m a retired elder. I wrote The Holy Spirit and Revolutionary Grace about 18 years ago. I’ve spoken at the Pepperdine, Lipscomb, ACU, Harding, and Tulsa lectureships and at ElderLink. My wife’s name is Denise, and I have four sons, Chris, Jonathan, Tyler, and Philip. I have two grandchildren. And I practice law.
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2 Responses to Moving On Down the Road, Part 2

  1. Scott Stegall says:

    Political times…… C of C's are dead silent on anything political because of one reason only……. FEAR

    Thank GOD this gentlemen is not bound by the fear that typifies our membership…….. Notice that he feels a Calling to stand up and fight evil since he has recently committed his life to Christ…… How powerful is that!!! the actual email I received just moments ago and the dialogue….. Jay: I believe that our CofC complacency is another fundamental factor for our lack of growth

    I know, I know………. Christians aren't supposed to talk about this stuff…….. just keep our heads down and let the world go by…… how complacent have I become….. and scared ……. and fearful…….. certainly don't want to offend anyone!!

    But this email is firsthand from my personal friend Steve Harmon….Chad was a client of Steve's who WAS an atheist….. don't bother to check on Snopes or whatever…….. because this is the truth from a Christian brother whose email I received TODAY 10/23/08….. Please read the testimony entirely…… May God forgive us for allowing and then watching this happen in this "Christian" nation!!
    Scott Stegall
    [email protected]

    From: Steve Harmon [mailto:[email protected]]
    Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:28 PM
    To: Chad Stogner
    Cc: [email protected]
    Subject: RE: Calling Out Evil – an open letter

    Wow! Thanks for taking the time to write down this. I will forward to other good brothers in Christ. I always wondered what the mood is inside an abortion clinic. I am thankful for the activists who stand outside in the rain near clinics in every town silently praying for this evil to stop.

    Soon after you shared with me your decision to Trust in Christ you told me this story and I have always thought of you when I see those committed protesters who are doing all they can to stop this. Maybe a simple vote on 11/4 would be a great place to start?



    From: Chad Stogner [mailto:[email protected]]
    Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 1:35 PM
    To: Steve Harmon
    Subject: Calling Out Evil – an open letter

    Steve – following is an open letter that I sent to my church. I thought that you might be interested. Since GA is now a battleground state, please send it to people you think could be impacted from this testimony. I have been alarmed at how many Christians that I know who have been sitting on the sidelines with regard to this issue.


    Disclosure: The following post discusses a matter that has been weighing on my heart. It involves the issue of abortion and the upcoming election. This is not a knee-jerk posting, or one trying to be devisive or judgemental. I have felt lead to discuss this with the body since I heard Mike's sermon the on October 12th. I have included a personal testimony that very few people in my life have ever heard.


    In a sermon October 12th, Mike preached that we had an obligation in certain situations to "Call out Evil". There are certain things that we must not abide. During that week, there had also been alot of discussion on the Gracevine about politics, and the role of the church in political discussions. I could not help but think about the issue of abortion as I sat in church that day. I have honestly been alarmed by how many Christians that I know that are discounting this issue in the upcoming Presidential election, or are unaware of how the candidates stand on the issue. Since the economy has dominated the political discussion, social issues have gotten little or no attention, or worse still, have been brushed aside as "politics of division". While I am aware that many Christians are drawn to solving social justice issues and are against war, the position of the Democratic nominee for President is so fundamentally wrong, that he and his party must be held to account on this issue alone. Not only does he currently advocate the reintroduction partial birth abortion – he has in the past advocated for what amounts to infanticide. He denied it in the last debate, but it is a matter of record – Please watch the following if you don't believe me:


    I therefore implore everyone to pray about this, do further research, and share it with others if you feel lead. I welcome anyone to talk to me about this issue.I have brought this to the body on my own. Following is a personal testimony and revelation I experienced involving abortion that lead me to the strong convictions I have in this matter.


    I gave my personal testimony to the Men's group several months ago. Part of my testimony was that before I became a Christian, God put me through several experiences that allowed me to see the contrast between good and evil clearly.I noted that one particular experience I had was when I began dating a girl that worked at an abortion clinic. I had always supported abortion rights, and had even participated in a "Freedom of Choice" parade in my college days. I didn't see abortion as good, but I certainly did not see it as evil either. The fact that I started going on dates with a girl ( I'll call her Tina ) who worked in this industry did not phase me. I found it interesting.

    Because it was obvious that I was not even remotely close to a "lifer", she began to open up and confide in me. Tina's mother had been a midwife, and Tina had wanted to follow in her mother's footsteps of caring and counciling women. She got a job at The Feminist Women's Health Center in Atlanta which, at the time, was adjacent to the Georgia Tech Campus. While the center did offer counciling and other women's services, it was primarily known for performing abortions through the 26th week of pregnancy.

    She told me that because she had some background in biology, her bosses pushed her into "the lab", and minimized the other duties that she was allowed to participate in. I came to learn that the lab was the room where the trays from the second trimester abortions were brought. The trays held all the parts of the fetus that had been removed from the mother during the procedure. She described the work as gruesome and difficult. She also felt the extra burden that the well-being of the women always relied on her accurate assesment that all the parts had been removed. Even missing a small bit of the fetus could result in life-threatening complications. She would often cry saying that she felt tormented and trapped.

    Tina also complained about the poor way employees were compensated and treated. She was paid a low hourly wage without many benefits. She had an odd mixture of awe and contempt for the doctor she worked under who was the one that performed the second term abortions.I don't remember his real name, but his nick-name at the clinic was "god". They literally called him "god". From her description, he was a large, handsome man in his late 30's who was paid a very high six-figure income. She described him as aloof, and said he never associated with anyone outside of work.

    I once was invited to attend a company party at the clinic directors' house. The directors of the clinic were a lesbian couple, and I was the only male there. I had shared a house with a lesbian couple in college, so I was used to being in settings like this, or so I thought. While I was tolerated, I was not very welcome. Tina told me not to worry about it because they did not like men in general, and reminded me that they were the directors of the Feminist Womens Health Center. "If they dislike men so much", I quipped, " why don't they hire a female doctor to perform the 2nd trimester abortions?" I could have never imagined Tina's response. " Women do not have the upper body strength that is required to pull the fetus from the womb" she said in a matter-of -fact way.

    After being rattled by that response, I started exploring all the tenants of the pro-choice argument with her. I came to learn that they might have 1 or 2 rape cases a year out of thousands, and in her years there she had never seen a case of incest. According to her account, 85% of the patients that they saw at the clinic were black women, many of whom were repeat patients that they called "frequent fliers". The balance of the clients were mainly white girls who were in there late teens through their early 20's – many of these were Ga. Tech or Ga. State Co-eds. While she acknowledged that adoption was an plausible option for many of the white women, she said that no one wanted to adopt black or mixed race babies. It was the unadoptability of babies of color that she held out as the strongest justification for the need for abortion. As I would later contemplate this idea, I could not help drawing parallels to the mindset that allowed the experiments at Tuskeegee.

    I brought Tina lunch one day while she was at work. I had never been inside the clinic. Unless you were a patient or an immediate family member, you were not allowed inside. Since I was Tina's guest, I was allowed to come in. As soon as I steped inside, I felt a presence that I had never experienced before. I can only describe it as the presence of evil. There were 6 or 7 ladies in the waiting room, all with their heads hung low. Several were openly sobbing. Crying could also be heard coming from the back rooms as well. The ceiling was low, and the lighting was very dim, adding to the grimness of the scene. Tina introduced me to the receptionist, whom I had not met before.All I can say is that I was completely horrified by her countenance. She was a lady with wild hair, a broad face, and flaring nostrils. She wore a silk shirt that was unbuttoned almost to her navel. Her masculine breasts were clearly visible, and her entire chest was covered in 2" tufts of thick black hair. In any other setting, I might have felt compassion for this woman, but in that room I could not help think that I was looking upon something demonic. A wide smile crossed her face as she lead one of the crying girls from the waiting room into the back. As the pregnant girl entered the back, she began wailing.

    Tina asked if I wanted a tour. I declined. I had to get out of that place, I was shaken.

    I soon ended the relationship with Tina. The poor girl was becoming more and more tortured and depressed by her work. She was dificult to be around. When she began talking about leaving the clinic, I encouraged her. Not soon after we stopped dating she left the clinic and moved out of state.

    God used this experience to sear in my heart that there was good and evil in this world. Although we are to show compassion and forgiveness there are things in this world that we just cannot abide. Abortion is one of them. Keep in mind that my experience was with a clinic that was restricted to 26 weeks. Think about 3rd trimester and partial birth abortion. Then try to imagine what the Democratic candidate has advocated for in the past when he was the lone no vote against a bill that would allow for medical care for babies who survived the partial birth procedure – this would sometimes happen when the baby came too quickly after the mother was induced.

    In Christ,

    Chad Stogner

  2. Jay Guin says:


    That's a powerful story. Thanks for sharing it.

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