In Romans 5, Paul explains how Jesus has initiated the reversal of the damage done by Adam. Sin entered the world through Adam, taking eternal life away from mankind. Jesus brought forgiveness and the return of eternal life.
Every verse has a deep thought or two or three. It’s rich material. And yet it’s easy to miss the obvious. You see, one of the obvious points of the chapter is that God is not fair.
(Rom 5:1 ESV) Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Who is “we”? Well, Christians, that is, people justified by faith. Not everyone. Just a few. Peace is available to all in a sense, but in reality, most people don’t receive it. Many never even learn about it. They continue to suffer the fate of Adam.
And Paul is quite clear that the those who are not “we” all “died through one man’s trespass,” that is, they did not receive eternal life.
(Rom 5:15 ESV) 15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.
Is this fair? Do “we” deserve salvation more than the world? Really?
Remember the old bumper sticker: “Not perfect, just forgiven”? When we were converted, at the moment before we first heard the gospel, we were not only not perfect but also quite a lot less than perfect. We weren’t any better than many people who are going to be damned.
The whole controversy over Rob Bell and his questioning of hell is in part about the fact that some very good people — people who are much better than me, anyway — are going to be damned.
It’s not fair.
And the amazing thing is that the Bible never pretends otherwise. In fact, the Gospels rub your nose in the unfairness of it all. Yes, really.
(Mat 20:1-16 ESV) “For the kingdom of heaven is like a master of a house who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2 After agreeing with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 And going out about the third hour he saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4 and to them he said, ‘You go into the vineyard too, and whatever is right I will give you.’ 5 So they went. Going out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour, he did the same. 6 And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing. And he said to them, ‘Why do you stand here idle all day?’ 7 They said to him, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You go into the vineyard too.’ 8 And when evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last, up to the first.’ 9 And when those hired about the eleventh hour came, each of them received a denarius. 10 Now when those hired first came, they thought they would receive more, but each of them also received a denarius. 11 And on receiving it they grumbled at the master of the house, 12 saying, ‘These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.’ 13 But he replied to one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14 Take what belongs to you and go. I choose to give to this last worker as I give to you. 15 Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?‘ 16 So the last will be first, and the first last.”
What’s the Kingdom like? Well, some people get what they deserve and no more. Some people get more than what they deserve. And people will complain that it’s not fair. Jesus could hardly be clearer.
Consider the parable of the talents —
(Mat 25:15 ESV) 5 To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away.
We recognize this to be true to the nature of things. Some people have more talents than others. Is that fair? No. And Jesus makes it quite plain that fairness is not how God works.
(Mat 25:28-29 ESV) 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
The one-talent man’s talent is taken from him — quite fair, actually — and given to the 10-talent man. Not fair. Why not give it to the four-talent guy? Doesn’t he need it more? Doesn’t the 10-talent guy have more than enough?
Rationalize it as you will, by contemporary American standards, it’s not fair. Hence, the parable of the ice cream cone.
The kingdom of heaven is like a father with two disobedient children. The father gave one child an ice cream cone and the other received none. The child with none received only what he deserved: nothing. The other child received a cone for no obvious reason. The child with no cone grumbled saying, “It’s not fair!” He was right.
Ah, you say, you sound like a Calvinist! I’m sure my Calvinistic readers would be thrilled to see me converted. But I’m no Calvinist. I’m just following the text where it takes me.
God’s not fair. But God is always at least just. No one gets a raw deal. No one gets less than he deserves. No one is punished more than he deserves. Everyone gets justice — or better.
“Ah, you say, you sound like a Calvinist!” Please explain.
I have never understood what the point of this parable was.
It is clear that each was given a chore according to their ability, and were rewarded for the work they did. Is your point that we should only be justified by grace, and work should not enter into it? I believe this is one of the many places that says you are wrong.
I think your understanding of romans is as skewed as rob bell unless I misunderstand you.
where does able fit into this definition of we, also the king that was allowed by abraham to take sarah from abraham thinking that sarah was abraham’ s sister.
Well at least you made me look up the word “fair” it is used 53 times in the KJV and always to discribe appearence never equal treatment. I believe the bible says what is expected depends on what you are given, therefore you are expected to do way more than I am, because you are richer, smarter and better looking than me, get to work.
Lammond amen to that:
GET TO WORK JAY “YOU AIN’T DONE YET”
🙂
Part of this irony is a matter of semantics. And part is due to the fact that we don’t see the whole picture. How can something be just and yet not fair? I’d have to change my definition of fairness (or justice) to make that possible.
God can give his blessings to whomever he wishes. They are his, after all. He has told us quite a bit about how he will distribute his blessings. He will do what he said he would do. IMO that is both fair and just.
This has the appearance of unfairness mainly because we want to get what the other guy gets, even though we didn’t meet the requirements as the other guy did. We’re like spoiled children.
P.S.
the question cannot be” who was Paul writing TOO”.
the question because of “THEREFORE” IS “WHAT” DID PAUL JUST CONTEXTUALLY SAY,IN EXPLAINING HIS STATEMENT IN “THE BEGINNING OF THIS LETTER ROM:1:1-7 ,in the ongoing narrative of grace through faithfulness towards god,and by god ROM:3:1-4 another therefore to the
” but now”of 21
to the through the blood of his Anointed One.ROM:3:21-31 that concludes with the
“but now” of chapter 8
it is not at all who.
it is what !!! the SPIRIT IS COMMENTATING
I understand that you MUST be exchanging the word “righteousness” to fairness in a subjective point of view, coming from god, as god is the only” fair or righteous judge”
as is being brought forward contexually by Rom 3:22 namely, the righteousness of God through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ.
for all who believe. For there is no distinction
I HOPE
🙂
I won’t even go into the use of mixing metaphors on pre restoration, and post restoration, how do you spell hermeneutics
although you could always fall back on romans 15th ch.
although you have to be careful with verse 8
I believe once we accept the MYSTERY of God the issue of fairness fades away like all questions in a child’s mind.
Where I am at this moment, meeting whom I am meeting, learning what I am learning and sharing what I have learned, is of God. We can no more draw a line between God’s way and our free will than we can determine the line between the wind and the calmness.
I may be able to speak better than most preachers I have heard. I may read and study more than many preachers who stand in their pulpits each Sunday with just a minimum of preparation. Yet, many of them have a large congregation and much admiration. And I? I was blessed to sit and talk to a little gentleman in a wheelchair who says after 96 years on this earth he is tired and wouldn’t mind very much leaving this old world behind. We had some laughs.
61 years of twists, turns, mistakes, blunders, and a few wise choices, took me to that man’s side yesterday. The voice of God is presence; the mystery, how we got here.
When we demand fairness from God we attempt to tame God and make Him what we’d have Him to be. That will never work because God isn’t tame-able. He is what He is or maybe I should say He is what He am. And from what I can descern of Him, He’s pretty much okay. We can demand fairness or accept mercy and I choose to accept mercy.
As long as my name stays written in the palm of His hand…I’m good… If I’m not satisfied with my relationship with Him…what would make it better ?? My cup runneth over…
“Ah, you say, you sound like a Calvinist! I’m sure my Calvinistic readers would be thrilled to see me converted. But I’m no Calvinist. I’m just following the text where it takes me.”
If you continue to follow the text where it takes you I cam convinced you will find yourself becoming more of a Calvinist. If God was “fair” with us we would all receive condemnation. I much prefer His grace.
“15 Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?”
Hesed,
Randall
SAY RANDALL:
HOW YA DOIN
JUST WONDERING if you have read Doug Campbell’sbook
The Deliverance of God: An Apocalyptic Rereading of Justification in Paul
.please do
what ya got to be afraid of …
that goes for every one else hear.. Jay 🙂 ya aint done yet
Douglas Campbell’s THE DELIVERANCE OF GOD is a tour de force for the proponents of the New Perspective on Paul (NPP), even as he challenges these same proponents to realize the full eschatological and apocalyptic dimensions of the grand narrative inspiring St. Paul. It will be interesting to see what mental gymnastics and tortured exegesis conservative evangelicals resort to in order to delay the inevitable: facing the inconvenient truth that sola fide versions of Christianity are founded on a mistake, whether in their liberal or conservative variegated forms. Worse, evangelicals who buy into Justification Theory as traditionally construed must also face the latent anti-Semitism that keeps them in denial about the nature and experience of Jews who love the Torah, as well as in denial about their own Gnostic (cognitive, individualist, voluntaristic) approach to the issues involved, hoping in vain that the cheap grace of their once-saved-always-saved mentality is more substantial than the chimera both Paul and Campbell have shown it to be.
THE DELIVERANCE OF GOD, I suspect, will shape the debate for decades to come, so thorough and adept is Campbell at laying bare the assumptions, contradictions, aporias, and anticipated objections of those who oppose NPP, while at the same time showing with skill and erudition the eschatological anemia of even the more brilliant NPP supporters. Campbell’s is a book to thrill to read, unless, of course, you are a sola fide believer. The sweep of his ambition is superbly matched by the meticulousness of his method. He never allows us to lose sight of the forest for the trees; yet, he has marked every single tree in the thicket of NPP research, stopping just long enough to tell us succinctly why this or that tree will, or will not, survive his ground-clearing work.
If I were an evangelical Christian open to the full force of Campbell’s analysis, I would feel betrayed by my tradition and somewhat at sea for my identity in Christ. Failing a participationist model of life “in Christ” that includes ecclesiological and sacramental dimensions as profoundly ritualistic and ethically demanding as those of Paul – both as a Jew and a Christian – the evangelical faith that supposedly overcomes the legalism of Judaism reveals itself to be essentially an anti-Semitic and Gnostic (cognitive) form of works righteousness. This is the graced irony evangelicals are compelled to face, I believe, if they have the courage to accept THE DELIVERANCE OF GOD.
Jay,
Wow, you’re really taken a pounding on this one. I appreciate the post and those who don’t are encouraged to study more. I’ll take a little pounding with you! Every human being deserves hell, but grace teaches us [Christians] to be glad God is not “fair” and to put off ungodliness [Tit. 2:12]. Notice grace comes before the good works!
God is so “unfair” that evil ones enjoy the good pleasures of this world while being called by God, even though rejecting God’s graciousness stores up wrath to be revealed on Judgment Day [Rom. 2:2]. The Bible is very clear that God gifts people, even Christians, differently.
Nothing about belief, baptism, etc. “force or cause” God to save us… these things would not matter if God had not chosen and reveal it. God could have saved everyone, no one, the unbeliever, or the believer. Yet God, according to his own good pleasure, for some reason, chose to only save believers. Maybe some readers serve an impotent God who cannot save? As a Classical Arminian, I affirm that we choose to believe (the responsibility is ours), but I also appreciate the sovereignty of God.
I offer Romans 8:28-30 again (it’s a favorite). God chose to save believers and not one will be missed, regardless of where they are in the world or the time in which they live. Admittedly, I don’t know all the ways that God works to proclaim the gospel of Christ, but I know that he does. Though God will accomplish his mission to save every believer, Christians [believers] will receive different rewards in heaven based upon their willingness to work [deeds] in this life.
grace and peace
Hi Richard,
I believe it is customary to use quotation marks when quoting a review of the book available at Amazon.com
I do appreciate some of the new perspective on Paul. I am a little confused by the suggestion that justification theology is described as conditional rather than unconditional. Perhaps b/c he is speaking of evangelicals as a whole and not those that affirm four or all five points of TULIP. Or maybe it is just that I am a little too dense to get what he is saying.
I found the discussion of diatribe as a literary genre interesting. A guy I knew at ACU (Stanley Stowers) wrote his dissertation on THE DIATRIBE AND PAUL’S LETTER TO THE ROMANS. I found a copy at a seminary bookstore back in the early 1980s and I am sure it is no longer in print. You might find a copy at a place that sells used books. — Well, let me change that – I just searched and Amazon has a couple of copies for sale right now. I guess someone reprinted the book. You might find it interesting.
Hesed,
Randall
God puts people in many different circumstances, various degrees of unfairness, but none that you cannot bear.
Whatever it is a person has to bear, God provides an equal way to heaven, that is the justice.
Doug,
Excellent thought!
HistoryGuy,
Glad to have a fellow poundee. At least somebody agrees!
.
“I believe it is customary to use quotation marks when quoting a review of the book available at Amazon.com”
well Randall>>>
figured you would catch that, i did right after i printed it.
I’m glad you brought that forward.
thanks
Randall
Richard Beck at ACU did a short review on the book
Notes on The Deliverance of God: Part 1, Justification Theory
here is a link
http://experimentaltheology.blogspot.com/2010/01/notes-on-deliverance-of-god-part-1.html
you might like it enough to read the book
anyway
bless you my friend
thanks Randell.
this is an excerpt taken from..
Stanley Stowers
On Interpreting Paul’s Epistle to the Romans
pg 17-18
link
http://mysite.verizon.net/thelogos/Stowers.pdf
“…Paul then speaks to an imaginary gentile (2:1-16), warning him of his precarious situation in the present historical moment (2:1-5) and promising him that God will judge both Jews and Greeks as an impartial judge by the standards of the law and Paul’s gospel (2:6-16). God has mercifully delayed punishing the gentiles in order to provide time for repentance (2:4-5). Chapters 9-11 will explain how God has brought about this delay as an opportunity for the gentile mission. In 2:17, Paul turns to begin a long discussion (2:17-4:22) with a Jew who has taken upon himself the task of teaching gentiles (2:19-20, 24) to perform certain works from the law (2:20-23). The readers thus overhear a debate between Paul and his Jewish competitors for gentile hearts and minds.
((Randall and all
god insures fairness(God’s just impartiality) a “Christocentric redemptive mission.
not an Anthropocentric redemptive mission” ))
The audience learns that God’s way of putting gentiles into a right relation through Christ’s faithfulness is to be sharply distinguished from the message of Jews who advocate works of the law The Jewish teacher does not understand
God’s just impartiality (2:25-29): gentiles ought to have the same opportunity as Jews to be right before God. Given the teacher’s own difficulty in keeping the law how dare he presume to improve gentiles? Moral betterment is not the answer. In the ensuing dialogue (3:1-9), Paul assures the teacher that God will be faithful to the Jews even though some (like the teacher, cf. 2:24) have failed in heeding and proclaiming the promises of God (3:1-4). Through a series of questions anticipating chapters 9-11, Paul gets the teacher to affirm that it is not unfair that this unfaithfulness on the part of Jews and God’s resulting anger actually play a part in God’s plan for a just treatment of Jews and gentiles (3:5-9). In fact, this current unfaithfulness of Jews in the face of the promises and the state of the gentile peoples has produced an apocalyptic (3:10-18) sinfulness among all nations. This situation has been brought about by God himself (11:32, cf. 3:19-20) so that he can judge all peoples with parity and have mercy equally upon all (3:9,19-20, 22-23;11:30-32).
The teacher needs to understand that in the present moment God is effecting his just solution not through the Jewish law (3:19-21) but in the gentile mission based on Christ’s faithfulness (3:22- 26). [Subtext: Jesus showed his faith-faithfulness-trust-obedience toward God and his mission as messiah by allowing himself to be killed instead of bringing about Israel’s final restoration, the last judgment, and the age to come. This he did out of love for the lost, including the gentile peoples. God accepted his action as a trusting and faithful enactment of his mission. He thus vindicated Jesus through the resurrection, postponing the great judgment and allowing time for a mission to the gentiles and the repentance of all Israel before Christ returns to complete his messianic mandate.] God’s acceptance of Jesus’ faithfulness was a great act of grace and forgiveness (3:24-25) enacting his justice toward the gentiles whose sins had been stored up for a terrible judgment because (unlike the Jews) they had no covenant or atonement (2:5; 3:25-26). Thus through Jesus’ faithfulness, God has shown himself to be just by providing a way for the gentiles to .be made righteous (3:25-26). In an ensuing dialogue, Paul tells the teacher that no basis any longer exists for his condescending pride in teaching gentiles to observe works of the law (3:27, cf. 2:17-20, 23). If God really is the impartial God of all and not just of the Jews, he will use the heroic faithfulness of chosen individuals to bring about good for gentiles just as he did for Jews (3:28-30 with 17
chapter 4 in view). Basing gentile justification on this faithfulness rather than on the moral betterment of individual gentiles through works of the law actually upholds the centrality of the law and is supported by the law (3:31, 4:1-25). God did not accept and forgive Abraham because he first fulfilled a list of works from the law but because Abraham faithfully committed himself to God and to his promise (4:1-8). God’s acceptance of Abraham occurred while he was still a gentile (4:9-12). Owing to his faithfulness, God gave him the sign of circumcision, blessing his descendants, the Jews, with a covenant of grace (4:11-12). Likewise the promise that Abraham would be the father of many peoples (gentiles) and that his seed would inherit the world was based on his faithfulness, not on his keeping the law (4:13-15). God has based his relations with Jews and gentiles on Abraham’s and Jesus’ faithfulness rather than on human ability to keep the law so that it would be guaranteed to all as an irrevocable promise from God himself (4:16-17). Through the promise to Abraham now being fulfilled in Christ, all peoples share a kinship with Abraham as ancestor (4:11-17,18-20)….”
Rich Constant,
Are you agree with Stanley Stower about the beginning of this “ Paul then speaks to an imaginary gentile” ? is not Paul speaking General about mankind in that time and still applied to our time? Was Paul making an argument or his own theology imagining a man ? Was he writing by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit?
Jay,
Your perception of this topic is earthly. Maybe because your bias about the 19 century doctrine of Annihilation (a little part of the modern view of God “theology”). That secular view of God through Theology. The origin of Theology that is a discipline started in School of Alexandria 100 years later after the death of the Apostle John. And always when I Read about the Apostle Paul Theology , I am in disagreement with that point of View, because that compound Greek word is not in the sacred text and sounds like the modern way to see the text , even postmodern , but give the impression of taking away the inspiration of the Apostle Paul and saying that he formulated his teaching . And also the other men that wrote the sacred text. That kind of theological Language comes from destructive criticisms that was introduced by philosophers from the Divinities Schools in the 19 century from Yale, Harvard, Chicago . in our brotherhood. we have the Example of (College of the Bible established by Brother. J.W. McGarvey later called Lexington Theological Seminary) you see history repeat and we haven’t learn from those examples from the past. The discipline of theology is not found in the New Testament writings. Many things that have shaped your thought are theories written by different uninspired men 100 years after the death of the Apostle John” That was that brings many views and always is mention as philosophies ( That many people are living of one of those) Col. 2:8 “8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.”
Jay said “but in reality, most people don’t receive it. Many never even learn about it. They continue to suffer the fate of Adam.” In what sense are they suffer the fate of Adam? Are you speaking about their spiritual death or physical death? .
I knew a GOOD WOMAN (now deceased) who never drank alcohol, never smoked cigarettes, never visited a nightclub, never gambled, never went to jail, didn’t course, or watch filth on TV, or listen to vulgar songs, or stay up late at night, and was exceptionally kind and generous. However, she wasn’t a Christian. She never understood the Gospel and that a good life without Christ is not good (Jn.14:6;Acts 4:10,12) . I know that this example looks very sad , but, we could not spiritually tell her anything that she would listen to. She believed in God and that was enough. That was her disadvantage, she did not want to listen the voice of God from her word. (Rev. 3:20, 22:17) God give the opportunity to hear the Gospel by his providence and “THIS IS NOT UNFAIR” because she has the opportunity to hear the Gospel and be save. But sometime mankind think that they are better without a relationship with God. The Human being get comfortable in this world that everything that God has lend us distract us from our final destination . Romans 1:18 -21 “18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Are we unsatisfied with the justice of God? Col. 1:23 “23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.”