From an article by Adie Zierman, at FaithStreet (read the full article at the link for additional thoughts by Zierman) —
“The Bible clearly says…”
We are the first generation to grow up in the age of information technology, and we have at our fingertips hundreds of commentaries, sermons, ideas, and books. We can engage with Biblical scholars on Facebook and Twitter, and it’s impossible not to see the way that their doctrines – rooted in the same Bible – differ and clash.
In fact, “clearly says” usually means “isn’t clear at all.” I mean, when we say things like that, we are often intending to intimidate the listeners into agreeing with us — because it’s all so clear. And intimidation is not a wise strategy in dealing with anyone, especially Millennials.
My experience is that this is a very well educated generation, willing to do some research, and unwilling to be bullied or blustered. They are willing to study the Bible and learn.
“God will never give you more than you can handle”
This paraphrased Mother Teresa quote has become so commonplace in Christian culture that I was shocked to learn that it wasn’t in the Bible.
Inherent in this phrase is the undertone that if life has become “more than you can handle,” then your faith must not be strong enough.
Amen. In fact, God often gives us much more than we can handle — except with the help of fellow church members, friends, family, and prayer. And any Christian should know that we aren’t required to handle the tough days all by ourselves.
The Millennial generation is largely better networked and more willing to ask for help than we “I can do it by myself!” Baby Boomers. And that’s a more healthy attitude.
“Love on” (e.g. “As youth group leaders, we’re just here to love on those kids.”)
In addition to sounding just plain creepy, this phrase also has troubling implications. We may understand that we need help, but we certainly don’t want to be anyone’s project or ministry.
This is the line that pushed me to post this list. “Love on” is just so hokey. What’s wrong with “love”? Of course, we should love our teens and college students. And we should act based on that love to serve them as best we can. What does “love on” add to that?
Black and white quantifiers of faith, such as “Believer, Unbeliever, Backsliding”
Millennials are sick of rhetoric that centers around who’s in and who’s out. We know our own doubtful hearts enough to know that belief and unbelief so often coexist.
This is a tough habit for us to break in the Churches of Christ — a very black-and-white denomination. Moreover, there really are lines between lost and saved. And they matter quite a lot.
On the other hand, I agree that we too quickly judge someone’s faith to be to be inadequate, and we often prefer to classify someone as a backslider rather than asking them what the problem really is. It may have nothing to do with their faith at all.
“God is in control . . . has a plan . . . works in mysterious ways”
Chances are we believe this is true. But it’s the last thing we want to hear when something goes horribly wrong in our life.
When a friend dies from cancer at 25 or your husband leaves you and doesn’t bother to even say why, it seems unlikely that God really wants these things to happen. He may have a plan, but his plan does not include every single suffering that occurs in this world. Much of that suffering comes from sin or the fallen nature of this world, and is not of God’s choosing.
Better is to remind the sufferer that God loves him or her and will ultimately provide a reward that makes this life worth having been lived. God will prevail in the end, even though Satan is going to win a few battles before it’s all over.
More concretely, rather than trying to speak for God, speak for yourself as God’s son or daughter. Remind your friend of your own love and care. Remind the sufferer that there are many people in prayer for him. Show your love in concrete ways. Be the hands and feet of Jesus to comfort the hurting.
But don’t try to pretend that it doesn’t or shouldn’t hurt. It does.
My response is from someone who is in Generation X. There is a way to show love (Jesus showed it, if anyone needs a refresher) and, as the article mentions, a way not to. You don’t have to agree with someone to love them. Though, many of us believe love is proportional to performance or the number of ideas agreed upon. Also, please accept that the younger generation has doubts about lots of topics. They also like knowing multiple opinions, I.e. Calvinist, Arminian, atheist , etc. even if they don’t subscribe to all of them. Now, if you mandate a particular opinion, you have just drawn a line. If you don’t like their knowledge and seeking of other opinions and you criticize them for it, then you have just shown your fear of knowledge. That is scary. If you tell the younger generation that they must have the same opinion as you, they may stay quiet about it and everything else.
Also, please don’t offer the old stock answer to their questions. Also, if you are reading the bible to them, explain the time frame of the writing and what was happening in the world at that time. Since the books and letters comprising the Canon were generally written to specific groups of people at points in history, by explaining the world events that were occurring then, it will make more sense. This can also reduce the tendency to proof text.
” God will prevail in the end, even though Satan is going to win a few battles before it’s all over.”
Jhn 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
But Jesus has said before in Matthew that saving the whole of the world just won’t happen.
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
No it is sad to say but Satan is going to win more than a few battles, When Jesus spoke of defeating Satan I believe he is saying I personally defeated Satan, and you can too if you only follow me, and obey God’s words. Jesus left this world over two thousand years ago and he left it a better place, but a place with a defeated Satan evidently not. There are more people living right now that does not believe in Jesus as saveior, than does.
I understand the following to say they will believe, just not now.
Hbr 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Hbr 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Hbr 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
(them that are sanctified) No not all but a relative few.
Hbr 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
When we teach that Satan will win “A FEW” battles we belittle the seriousness of the battle we are fighting as Christians, followers of Jesus. As Jesus said there will be a relative few saved. a few relative to the many who won’t.
“God will never give you more than you can handle” I don’t know where this came from, It surely is not from the bible. As a matter of fact the bibles tells us over and over we can’t handle this world without God’s help.
I have never heard that “Satan will never give you more than you can handle”. Because he will.
Jhn 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
Jhn 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
NIV
I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me,
(like I previously stated Jesus had personally defeated Satan, but the rest of the world was far from it)
Look at the message Jesus gave his apostles upon preparing to leave this world.
Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Jhn 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Jhn 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Jhn 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Jhn 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Jesus did not judge the world, he came to judge Satan and by defeating him personaly he did just that, Satan can, and will be defeated. But he has caused a lot of damage to God’s creation, and he will pay for it eternally.
I think “love on” is a Southern idiom. We mean “show affection and approval”. Like saying “visit” when we mean “have a conversation”. Or having “dinner on the ground”.
One reason we find ourselves speaking in Christianese to people and confusing them is that this is our “church language”. If we spend more time really communicating the things of Jesus outside the church service, others will teach us to translate our mother tongue into English.
There is no need for a battle between God and the devil if the devil is to get all but a few anyway and has won by default caused by Jesus and the bible.
This makes Jesus death not accomplishing much but for a few. Wonder what age the few lived in?
Actually, I like the idea that in the end, God will defeat satan and destroy him and his minions and take everyone to be with Him, giving satan nothing but defeat and destruction.
Whoever gets the most of us for eternity wins!!!
John, how many people do you think are Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim and many other religions. do you think the blood of Jesus will cover them as well? How about the Wickens. It won’t even cover many who call their selves Christian .
laymond, that includes all the American Indians and other civilizations that never heard fo Jesus that died.
With that understanhding, God hasn’t done too well and the devil sure wins. Preaching the devil is doing all these things to temp and teach error to get man, all he has to do is wait and God will send all but a few to him and his devil angels.
That’s what we have taught and for someone that believes that God gave His son to redeem man, all men, what we have taught has to be wrong.
I’d rather appear before God while believing God is better than we teach and expect that to be true on judgment day than appear before our God scared I had be bound to of missed something and done something wrong and so many of be sent to hell by “Our loving God that so loved the world that He gave His own son to die for our sins”.
WE can’t have it both ways and who could or want to love a God that plays games and contridicts in His word as we teach he does.
Some reassessing needs to be done or we will continue to hear those dying say I hope I have done enough. Reassuring is need for us in many ways and I look forward to it coming, and it is.
Don’t you just love it when people lead public prayers with King James vernacular …
AJ I didn’t write the bible, I just read it. and I sure am not God I am man and I ask why? just like you do, but with your thinking the flood was just a big lie to scare people. Either it happened like they said, or it was a very big prevarication How do you account for that story , would it be worse to just save eight, or maybe a few million? You seem to think man is the moral judge of God.
Of course… because that’s how God learned English when he was a kid.
As a mater of fact Price, can you show me where we are supposed to participate in “public prayer”.
laymond, Through the ages, judging our God as he is presented by different groups has been done many times as good people cannot believe in the God as he is being presented. That is also true of today.
As I’ve said many times, if we believed in and preached the God and His feelings and goals for us we sing about we would be better off and much closer to seeing God as He really is.
Our song books are closer to the truth than many of our so many different interpretations of the bible.
John, do you think the old and the new testament both gave a dishonest view of God?
“When a friend dies from cancer at 25 or your husband leaves you and doesn’t bother to even say why, it seems unlikely that God really wants these things to happen.”
Amen! I had a neighbor across the street quite a few years ago who left his religious group because this was the answer he got from his clergy when, at 10 yrs old, he lost his father to cancer. Why, he asked, would God want his father to die? I was the first Christian to tell him basically what you said here: “He may have a plan, but his plan does not include every single suffering that occurs in this world. Much of that suffering comes from sin or the fallen nature of this world, and is not of God’s choosing.” It was the beginning of a re-exploration of the faith for him, and the beginning of my commitment to do my best to encourage those in my own church to get rid of this phrase once and for all. It’s not just bad theology, it’s just plain destructive to the faith of some.
“God is in control . . . has a plan . . . works in mysterious ways”
In other words: Calvinism.
We live in an age where more people can read the Bible than at any time in history. We may not be ready for this opportunity.
laymond, No , but we do. It all depends on the mindset you read it in.
Nit picking scriptures can prove many different things to so many as we witness often.
Above Price wrote the following: Don’t you just love it when people lead public prayers with King James vernacular …
When I was young that was the norm in prayer and I was taught at Sunday School that it was done to show respect to God. Decades later I when I learned Spanish I learned both the formal (usted) and familiar (tu) tenses of the verbs. I also discovered that they pray using the familiar (tu) when addressing God in prayer and song. It was explained to me that they use the tu form with God b/c no one knows you better or loves you more.
Additionally, I was taught that English also has a formal and a familiar form, but we very rarely, if ever, use the familiar. I asked how the familiar is spoken and was told it was the “thee” and “thou” in which the King James Bible was written.
I found that interesting and worthy of noting,
Hesed,
Randall
Remember the first time I heard a visitor pray and not use the thee and thou. He almost got withdrawn from. None other allowed inside the church building either.
Today there are many bibles but the original and right one to go by will always be the King James.
Oh my goodness. The author of this article seems to have a “chip” on his shoulder. It reminds me of the nineties when being “politically correct” was an absolute necessity. What a piece of irony to end the article with being the “hands and feet” for Jesus. Talk about “churchy phrases.”
Not that I want to start a new thread, but to say that “God is in control…has a plan…and God works in mysterious ways…in other words Calvinism?” Come on. I’m not a Calvinist, but if I were I think I would be insulted. The entire Bible reflects that God always had a plan, and the numerous doxologies throughout Scripture reflects that His ways are past tracing out (if anyone needs those references I will be happy to provide-these are not like the statement, “God won’t put on you more than you can handle). As far a God being in control, as long a sin and death remain His sovereignty is being challenged. He has as much control as we, His ambassadors, give Him in this world. He is ultimately in control from the standpoint of working His will and His plan (redemption, second coming, etc…) but because He has chosen to work through humans, we can limit or hinder His control and reign. Back to the roginal intent of this response, to say by making those three statements that is Calvinism…I don’t know about that…you need to give a little more credit to people like R.C. Sproul and others on that level.
So if I say, “The Bible clearly says…” “For God so love the world that he gave His one and only Son…” it really doesn’t say that? I think the article needs some clarification. Maybe instead of saying “the Bible clearly says…” I should say something like, “We read in the Bible…” or “here is a passage to look at, what do you see or what can you take from these verses…” Would that be more “politically correct?”
Pastor John,
How about “The Bible says” — dropping the “clearly.” What does the “clearly” add other than some posturing? (I’m trying to make a habit of dropping the “clearly”‘s and such from my writing. It’s a hard habit to break, but if it says it, it says it, and “clearly” adds nothing.)
I believe God is in control.
1 Samuel 2:1-10 And Hannah prayed and said: My heart rejoices in the LORD; My horn is exalted in the LORD. I smile at my enemies, Because I rejoice in Your salvation.
No one is holy like the LORD, For there is none besides You, Nor is there any rock like our God.
Talk no more so very proudly; Let no arrogance come from your mouth, For the LORD is the God of knowledge; And by Him actions are weighed.
The bows of the mighty men are broken, And those who stumbled are girded with strength.
Those who were full have hired themselves out for bread, And the hungry have ceased to hunger. Even the barren has borne seven, And she who has many children has become feeble.
The LORD kills and makes alive; He brings down to the grave and brings up.
The LORD makes poor and makes rich; He brings low and lifts up. He raises the poor from the dust And lifts the beggar from the ash heap, To set them among princes And make them inherit the throne of glory.
For the pillars of the earth are the LORD’s, And He has set the world upon them. He will guard the feet of His saints, But the wicked shall be silent in darkness.
For by strength no man shall prevail. The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken in pieces; From heaven He will thunder against them. The LORD will judge the ends of the earth.
He will give strength to His king, And exalt the horn of His anointed.
Proverbs 16:4 The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.
Acts 17:24-31 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.
Colossians 1:15-17 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
Revelation 4:11 You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created.
Grace,
Very long comments usually get trapped in the spam filter, and I have to fish them out when I have a chance. Repeatedly posting the same comment only means more work for me. If you want to be sure I notice, send me a private email or contact me via the Contact link at the top of the page.
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Thank you, Jay. I had just put a new antivirus software on my computer and couldn’t tell if it was my computer or your site that wasn’t letting my comment post. Appreciate you helping out a sister 🙂
@Pastor John, concerning “God is in control…has a plan…and God works in mysterious ways…in other words Calvinism?”
Yes, God has always had a plan, and that plan has always been for you to do what he commands. His plan is not a micromanaging of people’s lives, or decreeing what all they will do before they are born, deciding the exact day of their death from eternity past, and all the other absurd nonsense taught by Calvinists and Rick Warren in the “Purpose Driven Life.”
In fact, (ironically, considering the “Purpose Driven Life” book is based on this concept) making these claims takes all purpose out of people’s lives! If God planned it all ahead of time, then we are just sock-puppets with no purpose and no reality to us; we don’t really exist.
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DavidB,
Please review the Site Policies. Among them is that commenters will adhere to 2 Tim. 2:24-26 and make no ad hominem statements. Calling someone a “Satanist” because you suspect him to be a Calvinist violates both policies. I have placed you on moderation, meaning your comments will not appear unless and until I approve them. I don’t have to agree with your comments, but you may not be a troll.
David,
I’m not a Calvinist. Never have been. I’ve written tens of thousands of words here opposing Calvinism. And I use “sovereignty” because its a word commonly used and well understood by people who study the Bible and theology. There is simply no basis to conclude that the use of that word makes someone a Calvinist.
God is sovereign. I respect and submit to his sovereignty.
PS — I don’t think Rick Warren is a Calvinist. I think he’s a Southern Baptist who teaches perseverance of the saints but rejects Calvinistic predestination. I may be mistaken, but I’ve never seen any predestination in his teaching. But I could be wrong. If you have evidence that he’s a true Calvinist (all 5 elements of TULIP), I’d be very interested in reading it.
PPS — Have you read the “Purpose Driven Life”? It’s been a while since I did, but I don’t recall anything saying what you say it says. It’s an imperfect book, but there’s a lot of good to be found in it. I wouldn’t be so quick to condemn it. Many Churches of Christ have taught from it and had excellent results. But if you’ve read it and found TULIP Calvinism in it, please show me where it is. I have a copy right here and I’d love to know whether what you say is true.
Jay, I have Mr . Warren’s book too . Maybe you should re-read “day two” and write a post on how true it is Maybe how God planned for all the misery some people have in their lives. Well you know Maybe how he planned for Mr. Warren to become a multimillionaire while children in Africa have nothing to eat, you know just a few things that might need explaining. Please write a post explaining to me because I just don’t understand why God planned for one man in America to become rich from writing about what God wants, while children a lot closer to the Holy Land are suffering starvation even death. Maybe you can put a little more light on why God would pick parents for children who kill them, Mr. Warren is talking about “his world” not the real world. Please lets have a discussion on Rick’s book.
Jay, maybe you should re-read day-2 of Warrens book.
On page 31.
“God also planned where you’d be born and where you’d live for his purpose. Your race and nationality are no accident. God left no detail to chance. He planned it all for his purpose.”
“Most amazing, God decided how you would be born. Regardless of the circumstances of your birth or who your parents are, God had a plan in creating you.”
If this is true, he also decided all the abortions, and apparently made people commit fornication and adultery since not everyone is conceived in wedlock, or maybe Ricky didn’t know that. Someone forgot to ‘splain him the birds and bees.
Laymond,
I have to agree that Warren has a Pollyanna kind of determinism in his book. He certainly teaches that God is in control and there are no accidents. He greatly minimizes the power of Satan and the brokenness of this world. It’s refrigerator-magnet theology — a kind of thinking with roots in Calvinism.
He says,
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=29809
This relates to Warren’s view on limited atonement: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u2RMyj-rxY
In short, he likely is something of a Calvinist — but not a hardcore Calvinist.
I am not. But I don’t see Calvinists as Satanic. Alexander Campbell taught that Calvinism does not damn. Thomas Campbell likely died a Calvinist. So I think when they get in heaven, they are going to be SO surprised at how wrong Calvin was. I’m looking forward to seeing some very sheepish looks.