While Paul uses a lot of ink arguing for faith rather than works, he never really argues that faith in God without faith in Jesus is insufficient. To modern ears, that seems to be the obvious question.
We know that Paul believes this because his entire life as an apostle was dedicated to teaching Jews and God-fearing Gentiles to believe in Jesus. Why bother if faith in God would have been enough? Why bring salvation to people who already believed in God if they were already saved?
So what is it about Jesus that makes faith in him essential? Well, consider what Paul says in 1 Cor, perhaps his earliest surviving letter.
(1Co 1:2 ESV) To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:
Those who “call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ (Lord Jesus, the Messiah)” is another obvious reference to Joel 2:32, which promises salvation to all who call upon the name the “Lord,” that is, YHWH. Paul is also calling Jesus YHWH!
He makes the clear all the more clear in chapter 8 —
(1 Cor 8:5–6 ESV) 5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
Paul insists on faith in the one-God of Judaism — but only as understood through Jesus.
Paul’s point is not just that there is a single deity. Staked out here is one’s relation to that deity, the characteristics of that deity, and what we know about that deity–these are what really matter. Life must be lived in light of the deity who is in control (cf. 3:21–23). It is not an option to be unrelated to that God. Life must be lived, moral decisions must be rendered in keeping with what we know about that God. The nature of all being is imaginable only within the scope allowed by and dictated by the nature and purpose of God.
A fundamental issue is engaged here: How does what one believes and knows about God bear on the relatively mundane decisions of everyday life? Paul’s answer: absolutely critically and definitionally. To whom does one belong? What are the characteristics of the one to whom one belongs? These are recurring issues in 1 Corinthians because they are fundamental to living the life of faith, to understanding one’s place in the world, and to moral reasoning.
J. Paul Sampley, “The First Letter to the Corinthians,” in The Acts of the Apostles-The First Letter to the Corinthians (vol. 10 of New Interpreters Bible, Accordance electronic ed. Nashville: Abingdon Press, 2002), n.p.
We know that there is in fact only one true God and one true Lord. The key words of v. 6, “Lord,” “God” and “one,” are taken from Deuteronomy 6:4 (“the Lord our God, the Lord is one”), in which Lord and God both refer to the same (one) God. Here Paul “has glossed ‘God’ with ‘the Father’, and ‘Lord’ with ‘Jesus Christ’, adding in each case an explanatory phrase: ‘God’ is the Father, ‘from whom are all things and we to him’, and the ‘Lord’ is Jesus the Messiah, ‘through whom are all things and we through him.’” Paul thus simultaneously reaffirms strict Jewish monotheism and the highest possible Christology imaginable. Christ finds his identity within the very definition of that one God/Lord of Israel.
Roy E. Ciampa and Brian S. Rosner, The First Letter to the Corinthians (Pillar NTC; Accordance electronic ed. Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 2010), n.p.
Amazingly, in 1 Cor 8:6-8, Paul takes the Jewish Shema (“Hear, O Israel, the Lord your God is One God …”) and turns it into a declaration that Christians worship but one God, but that the One God is both God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
In Paul’s mind, God has now revealed himself as both God the Father and Jesus who both Lord and Messiah. Believing this is “faith” and nothing else will do. Again: you can’t enter a Kingdom if you deny the King.
My understanding is that capitalized LORD = YHWH.
1Co 8:4 So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that “An idol is nothing at all in the world” and that “There is no God but one.”
This should tell us that we are to accept only one God. Yet we read only two verses more and we are told this.
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
This is a completly different discription of two different relationships with two different persons, yet we are to believe what Paul discribes here is a deception.
that it really describes two gods acting as one.
Paul continues by saying. 1Co 8:7 But not everyone possesses this knowledge. —————.
And I believe Paul was and is right.1Co 8:6 simply says that God made all things, and he has offered to share all things he made with us, through his son Jesus Christ even eternal life.
Here we go again…
Why Not?
Why?
Atta boy John, Why not, unless you have something to be afraid of , but when you teach that Jesus is God’s equal you do have something to fear.
Jhn 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Is this the words of one who thinks he is the power behind the throne.
Not at all. Jay, Monty, and others have done a fantastic job in making a scriptural case. I just don’t see the need for you to bring your position up in thread after thread. It’s already being discussed in another thread.
We are told that God is one and we are told that Jesus is God. This is equal to: Man is one (as in type and form) and there are many men. In the case of God there is the Father and the Son and possibly the H.S., although he is neither the Father or the Son, but is somehow interconnected and vital. My father used to think the H.S. was the force of God or perhaps an agent, distinct from the angels.
But as Salvation 2.0 suggest belief in God isn’t enough, but rather belief in Jesus and belief that He is the Son of God and the savior and can only reach God through Him. This belief should cause a response based in obedience and out of the faith.
An interesting thing is that while the Jews had the OT to work from, the gentiles largely didn’t, unless they were taught later or within the realm of the Jews teachings. But they did and were supposed to know of Jesus, at least.
This is a big argument against saying Jesus is God, when in the old testament there are many places where God (through others) says this is not so.
Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Mat 26:65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.
blasphēmia
1.slander, detraction, speech injurious, to another’s good name
2.impious and reproachful speech injurious to divine majesty
Dwight, does the followind help you on knowing just who the Holy Ghost/spirit of truth is.
Jhn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Jhn 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Jhn 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Knowing what the HS does, doesn’t explain how he fits in the Trinity in comparison to God the Father and Jesus the Son), just as knowing that God is spirit doesn’t explain what the spirit is in form and how the spirit comes into and out of man and how more than one spirit can be in one person. The fact is we don’t have to know. All we need to know is that the HS is active and part of God and directed by God to help us.
John 1 argues that Jesus is God, but not God the Father. And the fact is that while Jesus was baptized the HS came down to Jesus and God spoke from above.
Why, one can’t blaspheme the HS, but can blaspheme Jesus is not entirely clear, but it doesn’t argue against Jesus as God, but rather not God the Father who the HS is directly connected to. It might have had to do with the fact that Jews might be mistaken with Jesus, but they couldn’t be mistaken with the HS. And yet even the HS has no real solid representation in the OT.
Laymond,
Is Jesus ever referred to as the mighty God? Or is he ever called the everlasting Father?
Monty, I believe he is called both in this way, “he will be CALLED” , But I believe he was accused of blasphemy, and doing miracles through the power of Satan. I don’t accept either as truth .
So no he was never referred to by the two names you quote, but it is said that “he would be called by those names”. And I am sure he was called by many more that did not fit him.
Dwight, if you are trying to get me to prove that the “hg” is a member of a trio of Christian gods I can’t help you any. question: why could not Jesus send this comforter unless Jesus first died.?
Remember Jesus called him the spirit of truth, and the spirit of truth was fully tied up at the time.
description of the (Holy Ghost) not promised to anyone except the apostles
if you can find anywhere in scripture that Christions all recieve the “Holy Ghost”
please inform me.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter,
that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will
send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your
remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the
Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify
of me:
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away:
or if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will
send him unto you.
Laymond,
So, if I understand you correctly you feel the prophecy from Isaiah saying the child to be born to a virgin would be called mighty God, prince of peace, wonderful, counselor and so forth was predicting how he would be falsely referred to? That none of those titles were accurate and they do not fit Jesus?
Laymond, Monty, et al.,
As much as Laymond enjoys redirecting conversations toward his heterodox views on the divinity of Jesus, I’ve repeatedly asked him to stop, and I must reiterate that request. Laymond’s arguments have been fully presented here on multiple occasions, and the opposing, orthodox case has been made very well on many occasions.
I will grant this one exception. I’ve just posted an article pointing out the Peter and Paul both refer to Jesus as YHWH in Acts 2, Rom 10, and 1 Cor 9. If Laymond wishes to demonstrate that I’m mistaken in my reading of those passages, he is welcome to do so. But I would like to limit the discussion to NT passages that use OT YHWH passages to refer to Jesus. In particular, when Paul quotes Joel 2:32 in Rom 10:13 as referring to Jesus, to support his statement that the confession of Jesus as Lord saves (Rom 10:9), how does that not make Jesus the “Lord” referred to in Joel 2:32, which is YHWH in the Hebrew? Same argument as to Peter’s sermon in Acts 2?
Just thought I’d check the commentaries to see if they agree with my reading of the text.
Douglas J. Moo, The Epistle to the Romans, The New International Commentary on the New Testament, (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1996).
Robert H. Mounce, Romans, The New American Commentary, (Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 1995), 27.
Tom Wright, Paul for Everyone: Romans, Part 2: Chapters 9-16, (London: Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge, 2004), 33.
Everett F. Harrison, The Expositor’s Bible Commentary: Romans through Galatians, 1976, 10, 113.
John D. Barry, Michael S. Heiser, Miles Custis, Douglas Mangum, and Matthew M. Whitehead, Faithlife Study Bible, (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2012), Ro 10:12.
“Thus, Paul identifies Jesus Christ with Yahweh of the OT.”
I dont know how Paul made such a mistake in the following statement, if he knew better.
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God,(Theos) the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord (kyrios ) Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
theos — 1.a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities
(the one who created us along with everything else, and gave his son power of master, and Lord over all he had created)
kyrios – 1.he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord .(the one who paid for us with his own blood)
Jay, I am working on the bible class you gave me, it is late and I am old, will finish tomorrow 🙂
Jay said
In particular, when Paul quotes Joel 2:32 in Rom 10:13 as referring to Jesus, to
support his statement that the confession of Jesus as Lord saves (Rom 10:9),
how does that not make Jesus the “Lord” referred to in Joel 2:32, which is
YHWH in the Hebrew? Same argument as to Peter’s sermon in Acts 2?
Joe 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of
the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be
deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall
call.
At the time Joel wrote this, God retained full lordship over all he has created.
Yes the word Lord referred to Yehovah because Yehovah was the Lord over his
creation. He had not made his son lord over all at that time. and as Paul so
correctly said God will be Lord over all his creation again. even his son.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things
are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things
under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son
also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be
all in all.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the
same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
How does this stack up against what Paul wrote in 1Co 15:27 don’t you think
Paul might be speaking of “God Almighty” just as Joel was.?
Acts 2 who is doing all the work mentioned in Peter’s sermon. I don’t think Jesus
raised himself from death . I believe Jesus said what I do is by the will of God, the
Father. I can’t find any place in scripture where Jesus was called Jehovah, it is
just not there.
No I am not Trinitarian a believer in three separate but equal gods, however I am a
believer in God almighty, Jesus Christ, and the holy spirit of truth. as being separate.